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Old 05-10-2021, 10:53 PM   #31
Turbocapitalist
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Interesting. It's available since May 4th in the BBC 4 archive as "The Right to Repair" for a while. Supposedly it will be available in the archive for at least a year. There's a lot of focus, and rightly so, on hardware, but firmware is starting to be measured in megabytes, and in some cases gigabytes. Thus software should be recognized as increasingly relevant, especially Freedom 0.
 
Old 05-11-2021, 12:10 AM   #32
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True, lots of devices thrown away because of the soft/firmware being broken or simply stale, not the hardware.
 
Old 06-10-2021, 02:07 PM   #33
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This post from the EFF seems germane to this thread:

EFF Files Amicus Brief Defending the Right to Repair in Massachusetts
 
Old 06-11-2021, 12:54 AM   #34
ondoho
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^ "Almost immediately, automakers asked to delay the law."
lol, so typical.
And then spreading the old lie of open systems being inherently insecure.
I wonder to what extent their infrastructure depends on openssh...
 
Old 06-11-2021, 06:35 AM   #35
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Sounds like an ignorant question, but what is 'an Amicus Brief?'
 
Old 06-11-2021, 06:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
Sounds like an ignorant question, but what is 'an Amicus Brief?'
Amicus is short for Amicus Curiae, friend of the court. It's someone who isn't directly connected with the plaintiff or defendant but has an interest in the outcome of the case. Such people are allowed to have their own counsel and take part in proceedings.
 
Old 06-11-2021, 06:39 AM   #37
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=define+amicus+brief

 
Old 06-11-2021, 08:27 AM   #38
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People get neurotic about their electronic hardware being copied. It's drilled into every hardware guy, especially managers. With computer hacking, you can now theoretically get ASIC Designs, & cpu software.
ASICs cost big bucks, but if you're not needing that speed, you can replicate on FPGAs, which are programmable circuits.

But a computer hack is a better way of going about replicating a commercial product than reverse engineering.
 
Old 06-11-2021, 12:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
This post from the EFF seems germane to this thread:

EFF Files Amicus Brief Defending the Right to Repair in Massachusetts
I think this highlights one aspect of the subject where intentions were for car repair shops. This has been around for some amount of years and (living in Massachusetts) I've seen stories, as well as ballot questions about it. Always it was related to cars and car shops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
People get neurotic about their electronic hardware being copied. It's drilled into every hardware guy, especially managers. With computer hacking, you can now theoretically get ASIC Designs, & cpu software.
ASICs cost big bucks, but if you're not needing that speed, you can replicate on FPGAs, which are programmable circuits.

But a computer hack is a better way of going about replicating a commercial product than reverse engineering.
This to me is another aspect, such as duplicating electronics. I think what's being said here is that it is far easier to duplicate software versus the product, but also does cover things like anti-piracy mechanisms at the component level.

I've worked for several consumer goods companies.

Apple's a bad example, but I'll use them (in theory). They're a bad example because they own their whole ecosystem, ergo if someone made knock off air pods and sold them for 1/2 price, Apple would be invested in knowing this and avoiding it. Since their ecosystem is owned end to end, what a knock off product would not be able to match, would be features which are available in the Apple solution. Still, for the shape, size, and pure Bluetooth sound connections, there's nothing to say that look alike Apple air pod knock offs that were 1/2 or 1/4 the price would be a product many people would be happy to buy.

Think about a toothbrush, an electric one. There are many personal care products varying from $10 to $200, and one has to ask their self, what's so great about the $200 one? Further, when they consider the $3 or $5 manual toothbrush, but a fast vibrating, battery powered one, for $10 or $12 isn't so bad, they'll buy it. Meanwhile the people at the top of the chain who are prominent vendors for these types of products, may make them in the $50 range and they'd be upset to find a knock off of their product which does less and sells at a lower price point.

Further, what about things like replaceable ear tips, for headphones, or for a hearing aid, and what about replaceable toothbrush tips. Wouldn't the makers of Oral-B be rather upset if I could by Walmart brand tips for $3 as opposed to paying $7 for the manufacturer's tips?

All these numbers are made up, I'm not scanning prices and quoting stuff, just explaining perspective.

Next, I had a friend who worked for a semiconductor company. They would slice apart competitors products and x-ray them. For their purposes, they'd be doing it to learn and also protect, this was one of the top vendors and if their competitor released a very close new technology to what they had just released, they'd be going "Hmmm ... now how'd they do that? Did they x-ray and steal our stuff? Did they just invent on their own?"

As far as embedded code, the consumer products I've worked on the protection schemes are very important, not just "on" the device, but in manufacturing. Say you manufacture somewhere and that company can establish a deal with a knockoff provider, and get away with burning your company's firmware onto these knock-offs? Hmm ...

Ending this with a sort of high pitched lilting phrase, ... "You'd be surprised ..." <what people will try>
 
Old 06-11-2021, 02:43 PM   #40
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Well, for 12 years at least (1990s/00s), Toyota were charging €2000 to the trade for their Series 4 forklift pcb, which sold retail for €2500. I repaired them for €500, and was laughing all the way to the bank. I had the pcbs on Service Exchange, and Toyota Ireland stopped stocking them, and sent people to me

That's what the right to repair does to company profits.

Series 5 forklifts were out when I started, but in series 6 I was designed out. Series 6 had AC inverters with these massive Static Induction Transistor modules specially built by Fuji for them, and I was frozen out. I didn't care much, because it was just one more nail in the firmly closed coffin for burying my business. I had lasted until 2006, which was an achievement in that hostile business.

All these automotive electronics sell for exorbitant prices trying to recover the continual R & D investment. That's why the auto companies care. There's a huge amount of R&D gone in to getting reliable products operating from car batteries. Manufacturers are in the forefront of this, each with their own proprietary test gear, special plugs, etc. etc.

Last edited by business_kid; 06-11-2021 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM   #41
business_kid
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I wonder if anyone noticed this potential cat among the pigeons?

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/21/0...to-repair-bill
 
  


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