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Old 09-19-2019, 04:34 AM   #46
freemedia2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Did you write a Techrights entry on this? I would support you on this, though the 'terms' would have to be clarified. Would it be all-out no-holds-barred self-expression or would there be some topics and points of view vetoed [I suggest the latter, to a small extent]? And what would the platform be?
Oh, it would not be moderated, it would be "A Day of Civil (Discourse) Disobedience."

Basically, a day of saying things that might get people banned from things. I would discourage the idea of deliberately bullying people. The problem though, is that people now conflating being offended with being bullied. Bullying exists and all that, but someone needs to redraw the line they've removed between the two.

I am currently conducting an experiment on Gab-- I remove the most offensive and useless things I can find, simply by muting the person from the public feed. I intend to find the "best" of Gab. The actual contributions. I definitely believe I've found some already.

Basically it is a day to not worry about being offensive. I realise that not everyone is going to participate. It's sure to get out of hand in terms of things said, but-- all this Cardinal Richelieu ("If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him") nonsense has gotten far out of hand as well. This isn't just about having fun anymore, it's about people's livelihoods.

Also I don't agree with Brendan Eich on very much at all, but what we did to him was wrong. We did the same thing to him that was done to Stallman, and IMO it hurt the mission of Mozilla when he left (I believe Eich was holding that thing together, and we got him not for his behaviour in the workplace, but for what should be a private donation related to his religious beliefs.) It's more than a slippery slope, we've simply gone too far with the thought-policing already.
 
Old 09-19-2019, 06:53 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
Also I don't agree with Brendan Eich on very much at all
Certain people at Mozilla Corp just didn't want Eich as CEO, so they resigned...

Then the dirt digging began and what was dug up became the reasoning...
 
Old 09-19-2019, 07:36 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
It's time the entire internet stopped getting its panties in a twist over every faux pas-- is there a war on? Sorry, sorry-- I meant "its underwear." We've certainly come a long way since the "Wild West" days of the internet.
I remember a time when everyone said the Internet would become a new democracy in which, for the first time in history, everyone could have their say. Instead it's become a new kind of fascism in which anyone guilty of "thought crime" gets hounded and trolled to death.

Last edited by hazel; 09-19-2019 at 07:37 AM.
 
Old 09-19-2019, 09:14 AM   #49
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Thoughts?

Live by the lip.
Die by the lip.
 
Old 09-19-2019, 02:21 PM   #50
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
One thing that is still rather unclear to me, why did RMS choose to so quickly fall on his own sword for what essentially started as poor reading comprehension?
I think because this is not an isolated incident.
He himself has made questionable statements in the past, as well as others from the "The FOSS Community", with similar reactions.
I'm not taking sides in the topic at hand, simply saying that it was probably just the last drop - both for RMS himself and those organisations denouncing him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdm View Post
Curious how emotional I was about this last night. There are plausible off-topic reasons for that emotion, the emotion that should have been available for a recent family occurrence but somehow lost its way or could not be dislodged, instead popping off now and winding back to me for this event that has next to nothing to do with me.
I had very similar reactions, and subsequent curious thoughts, some time ago when the CoC hit the fan ("Linus Torvalds taking a break" etc.).

It's good to turn back and re-examine everything, because so much fact gets lost in the outrage.

Also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
It's looking more like the SJWs are repeatedly being played as tools to take down top FOSS leaders to remove barriers to human rights encroachment while also disturbing the market.
Unfortunately it often looks like precisely that.
It's nothing new, a simple technique called splitting. Or, "divide and conquer".
 
Old 09-19-2019, 03:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
Oh, it would not be moderated, it would be "A Day of Civil (Discourse) Disobedience."

Basically, a day of saying things that might get people banned from things. I would discourage the idea of deliberately bullying people. The problem though, is that people now conflating being offended with being bullied. Bullying exists and all that, but someone needs to redraw the line they've removed between the two.

I am currently conducting an experiment on Gab-- I remove the most offensive and useless things I can find, simply by muting the person from the public feed. I intend to find the "best" of Gab. The actual contributions. I definitely believe I've found some already.

Basically it is a day to not worry about being offensive. I realise that not everyone is going to participate. It's sure to get out of hand in terms of things said, but-- all this Cardinal Richelieu ("If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him") nonsense has gotten far out of hand as well. This isn't just about having fun anymore, it's about people's livelihoods.

Also I don't agree with Brendan Eich on very much at all, but what we did to him was wrong. We did the same thing to him that was done to Stallman, and IMO it hurt the mission of Mozilla when he left (I believe Eich was holding that thing together, and we got him not for his behaviour in the workplace, but for what should be a private donation related to his religious beliefs.) It's more than a slippery slope, we've simply gone too far with the thought-policing already.
I like this idea, good day to read some Henry David Thoreau or ChuangTzu . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau

Also a great time to watch Jordan Peterson: Political Correctness and Postmodernism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5rUPatnXSE
 
Old 09-20-2019, 10:48 AM   #52
enorbet
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OT - Hello Chuang Tzu... I just wanted to chime in and offer my support for checking out HDT and Jordan Peterson and ask you if you've seen the interviews of Jordan on the Joe Rogan show? The length to stretch out, calm environment, and total lack of concern for the "photo op" does a terrific job of letting the intervewed be seen in their most complete human light. The Rogan interview of Ben Shapiro is similarly fascinating and informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCD9zjf_YRU. Worth a view for sure as are the majority of Rogan's podcasts.
 
Old 09-20-2019, 03:41 PM   #53
ChuangTzu
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Also OT....

Hi enorbet...Yes, Jordan has appeared on Joe's show so many times I think it may double as a second office for him.

Joe has a knack for having people feel comfortable enough to seem more "real/human", even if they are pissed off with him. Missed the Ben Shapiro episode will mark it to watch later today or tomorrow. Enjoyed his interview with Elon Musk, but that caused some trouble for Elon.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 07:06 PM   #54
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I jumped into the dragon' s mouth and started a thread on the fsf-community-team mailing list. <fsf-community-team@gnu.org>

Here is the text, but I encourage for people to sign up and participate. Silence is consent and the silent majority needs to start speaking up for itself.

Quote:
Greetings;

Due to the nature of the attacks upon RMS and the methods used I will be
blunt. Attacks of a horrendous nature as the accusations are not only false
but are very serious and horrible to fling around in the partisan shit
slinging that happened. The methods are those usually reserved for the most
contentious political issues in the open field of unbridled rhetorical
warfare. These are old tactics used by the worse abusers and enemies of
freedom and liberty for over a hundred years born in the political trenches of
WW1 and manifested as the Oktober Revolution and the horrors that have
unleashed upon the world since.

I do not think the FSF can survive this in it' s previous and present form.
There is no other leader that with the intelligence, skill, focus, or
dedication that RMS brang to the world. I have been thinking the last few days
and I realized I was guilty as many others of taking for granted the impact of
GNU and the GPL. GNU could use another kernel, but can Linux use another
userland? In theory yes, but theory and practice are two different things. Who
else rewrote unix utilities, gathered a cadre of selfless geniuses, started a
revolution, developed a philosophy, and wrote a license that shook the world
to it' s foundations? No one.

For the corporate and governments tyrants to snuff out the movement it has to
get rid of the leaders and pick off the rest of the pack one by one. Linus was
muzzled, the old leaders where RMS was the Last Man Standing has been shoved
into a corner by uncivilized brutes crying freedom covering their own vicious
and tyrannical agenda. Who is next?

It is shocking how easy it was for them to slander and remove RMS from his
rightful and hard won role. It is shocking that the methods used have not been
questioned, that I have seen and I hope someone can show me otherwise, and
people involved in getting the ball rolling in this despicable episode have
not been called out.

A dangerous precedent of people abusing thier positions for partisan politics,
that uncivilized methods of verbal brutality and irresponsible use of social
pressure has now been set. Where a short campaign of FUD can dethrone one of
our leaders whose contributions and it' s trickle down effects are hard to
measure, where our enemies can hide behind hypocritical rhetoric of emotional
control words to divide and conquer us.

On to the stage enter Eric McGovern, Executive Director of the GNOME
Foundation. The lack of professionalism, irresponsibility, of office is at an
absurd level here:

https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gn...nship-gnu-fsf/

If someone in such a high level of responsibility can fail in reading
comprehension of what RMS said so badly, or not read and accuse someone of
horrible misconduct based on what someone else said, the question is he
suitable for the role he is in? If he knew what he is doing the community does
not need someone with his agenda, or someone else' s, in an organziation that
has a worrying amount of software under it' s umbrella. One that is the
default desktop for the two main corporate distros: RHEL (including Fedora and
CentOS) Ubuntu.
"Should this not happen in a timely manner, then I believe that severing the
historical ties between GNOME, GNU and the FSF is the only path forward.
GNOME, GNU and the FSF is the only path forward."
That is nothing short of blackmail. Tell me again Eric how blackmail fits "...
GNOME Foundation’s strategic goals is to be an exemplary community in terms of
diversity and inclusion." these strategic goals?

Eric McGovern must go. He either has his own agenda or is playing to the tune
of corporate agendas, either way he is injurious and detrimental to Free
Software. Blackmail is criminal in the least...

This email is getting too long and I have much more to say, but will save the
more for later. There is more people I would like to call out so more are
aware how widepread this FUD campaign is, and how many useful idiots are
jumping on the bandwagon for the hay ride. Maybe others can help and make it a
thread.

Thank you RMS for all your decades of work and selfless commitment, for what
you started and persued so I may write this on free software and for never
compromising on your principles. A true philosopher.
 
Old 09-27-2019, 05:32 AM   #55
hazel
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Would you like someone to check the spelling of that for you? Or is it too late for that?
 
Old 09-27-2019, 08:38 AM   #56
cynwulf
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You got the gnome foundation executive director's name wrong.

For me, the gnome foundation's stance wasn't at all surprising, it's not shocking in any respect and if it had been any different, that would have been unusual and suspicious behaviour from them. The gnome foundation executive director is an ex Debian project leader. That's not surprising either. So "political correctness" it is.

But also it's clear that while the opportunity to pile on and force out Stallman was there, there were quite a few who readily grabbed that opportunity with both hands...

This was a concerted corporate backed effort, by diverse parties, who all sing from the same hymn sheet, aided every step of the way by nasty tech press journalism - and of course by the multitudes of professionally offended, useful idiots with the "social justice warrior" mentality.

In another thread I commented that, while Cloudflare, faecebook, etc can host some very questionable, if not illegal content, only taking it down for good PR, while their CEOs remain employed billionaires, this man cannot speak his mind without being targeted by what I would call a mindless mob, who feed on and spew out "viral outrage".

Whether you like Stallman or not - others should be fearful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedp View Post
GNU could use another kernel, but can Linux use another
userland?
The answer is yes. The most popular Linux based OS by far, Android, is a good example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedp View Post
"...GNOME Foundationís strategic goals is to be an exemplary community in terms of
diversity and inclusion."
Which means excluding those who don't fit the profile. What is the profile?

Well it's embodied in a CoC of course:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Foundation/CodeOfConduct

Quote:
The GNOME Online Code of Conduct was forked from the example policy from the Geek Feminism wiki[etc]

Last edited by cynwulf; 09-27-2019 at 09:11 AM.
 
Old 09-27-2019, 11:09 AM   #57
jakedp
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Except you cannot use the Android userland as you can use the GNU/Linux userland, the Android userland is very limited.


I typed his name out as it is on the linked article. So then he spelled his name wrong too.

Hazel, no I don' t someone to spell check it into wrong modern pdigin English. I thought I read it over and checked it, which I did not as was also rushing because I had other things to do. Errors throughout, my mistakes and it irks me. :-)
 
Old 09-27-2019, 11:17 AM   #58
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedp View Post
I typed his name out as it is on the linked article. So then he spelled his name wrong too.
You didn't spell his name wrong, you got his name wrong - there is a difference.

 
Old 09-27-2019, 11:52 AM   #59
jakedp
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Damnit. Thanks.
 
Old 09-27-2019, 12:29 PM   #60
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
In another thread I commented that, while Cloudflare, faecebook, etc can host some very questionable, if not illegal content, only taking it down for good PR, while their CEOs remain employed billionaires, this man cannot speak his mind without being targeted by what I would call a mindless mob, who feed on and spew out "viral outrage".

Whether you like Stallman or not - others should be fearful.
Hach, sometimes I really miss the Upvote buttons...
 
  


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