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Old 08-06-2021, 01:45 PM   #61
Ser Olmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Regarding the definition of "Vaccine" -
Semantics.

If I understand sundialsvcs correctly, he's objecting to the term being used to describe mRNA therapies because they don't work like traditional vaccines. While it seems his understanding of how the immune system works is somewhat lacking, he's not wrong about mRNA therapies being fundamentally different from traditional vaccines.

As you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
It is possible to see mRNA vaccines as technically different because they contain even less markers of the target than earlier vaccines did, especially the Live variety.
I would object to the term "live" being used in relation to viruses, as they are not alive by any reasonable definition of the term, but that's beside the point. The point is the "even less markers" part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
However mRNA basically like all vaccines simply targets the actual agent of viral or bacterial infection and our immune systems do all the hard work.
Yes, if one oversimplifies to such an extent, they are basically the same. But I don't know why one would do that.

When I first heard about mRNA vaccines, I was intrigued. It's been a while since we've had a major breakthrough in vaccine development, so I decided to look into the technology and the working principles to see what the good news was all about.

And when I realised how it all works, my reaction was "holy ****, we're playing with fire. If this becomes the norm with regard to vaccine development, it's probably going to blow up in our faces in a major way." I'd be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested, or just keep my views to myself if nobody cares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Members here may have noticed I have yet to report sundialsvcs. I hesitate because I abhor censorship
Then don't. He's done nothing wrong.

At least you didn't say "I hate censorship, but..."
 
Old 08-06-2021, 02:09 PM   #62
michaelk
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The most serious problem you have is that you do not know what is a vaccine.

The technical definition of a vaccine is " A product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease." There is nothing that says a vaccine has to be made up of a dead or Live-attenuated virus, in fact there are six different types of vaccines including mNRA.

I see that I am to late...
 
Old 08-06-2021, 03:15 PM   #63
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A 'vaccine' is not active.

A 'vaccine' does not "induce your body" to do anything. It only makes your immune system passively(!) aware of something that it didn't yet know.

"mRNA" causes your cells to produce a pathogen, and in so doing to be marked for death by your own immune system. Furthermore, it has the ability to do this uniformly throughout your body.

There has n-e-v-e-r been any "medical technology" like this, and it has n-e-v-e-r been "approved" by passing the required gauntlet of trials.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-06-2021 at 03:19 PM.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 03:31 PM   #64
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So in future we will see more solutions which will utilize mRNA technology. The doors are now open.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 03:35 PM   #65
sundialsvcs
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Ser Olmy ... no, this won't be the first time that I have been declared persona non grata in a public forum for disagreeing with the then-popular consensus held by "senior members" and "gurus" and even "moderators." But I assure you that I am not here to pick a fight.

Very simply, I perceive that the "emergency use authorization" system has been intentionally(!) abused by politically-connected and improbably-compensated operatives, who used their powers to utterly crush the fact that "alternative effective treatments do exist," strictly to ... enrich their own pockets, and those of co-investors like Bill Gates. In the very simple pursuit of "billions of dollars in profits," now to be suddenly gained from investments that until now had been utterly worthless, they show themselves perfectly willing to deceive tens of millions of people around the world. They also demonstrated their willingness to use their position to maneuver entire economies into ruin, laying waste to families and small businesses who had been conditioned to trust them far too much.

Future historians will write their pages about us from a perspective of complete shock: "they did all this in response to a simple and expected 'variant' of "the common cold?" Maybe it's time for a brand-new author to write another volume to this centuries-old compilation: "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds."

This whole thing never had anything to do with: "advising the public about the [purported] existence of a 'public health hazard' and helping them to make their own most-informed decision about what to do about it." No, this whole thing has always been about taking their powers of decision-making entirely away from them, and conveying them all to The State.

Those of us who still like to read History Books recognize this centuries-old gambit instantly – despite its latest form. Do not deceive yourself that this is really about "public health" nor "medicine." The stakes are much, much higher.

If you die, or suffer drastic consequences, then the industrial calculation is simply that "you're not allowed to sue." Therefore, by virtue of this simple (and, curiously, entirely self-appointed ... you had no say in this ...) arrangement: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. I've got my billions free-and-clear – sux to be you."

Why am I going "all the way out on this limb, in public?" Because it matters.

- - -
Now, if the consensus of the community has suddenly become that you wish to excommunicate me – merely go ahead and do it. If "freedom of speech" is a little too much for you, I really don't mind. If tomorrow morning I find that my login doesn't work, I'll just shake your dust from my sandals.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-06-2021 at 03:39 PM.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 04:36 PM   #66
m.a.l.'s pa
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sundialsvcs, have you spoken recently with any of the medical professionals at children's hospitals in your state? Beds are filling up there quickly, I understand. I was looking at this piece a few minutes ago: 'All of them': Tennessee health chief says children's hospitals will fill up as delta variant surges (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/al...ges/ar-AAN1cLo)

Well, it would be interesting reading if you'd care to comment on that.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 05:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
'All of them': Tennessee health chief says children's hospitals will fill up as delta variant surges (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/al...ges/ar-AAN1cLo)
"Will fill up" is an opinion.

If there were hard data suggesting that the delta variant affects children in a way that is radically different from all other variants, then I'd be concerned. I don't see that data, and we haven't seen this in other countries where the delta variant is prevalent, like the UK.

From the article:
Quote:
Children age 10 and below now account for more than 10% of all new coronavirus infections in the state, one of the highest rates of any point during the pandemic, according to Tennessee virus data released by the state earlier this week.
What does this tell us? Nothing useful, as far as I can tell.

If anything, I'd say that 10% is a bit lower than what one would expect, given that in 2019 there were ~40 million children below the age of 10 in the US, out of a population of 328.2 million. That's around 12.2%, so unless the demographics have changed drastically since then, children below the age of 10 are slightly underrepresented among infected cases, despite being entirely unvaccinated.

More from the article:
Quote:
While Piercey fears these rising infections will fill up children’s hospitals, state virus data makes it clear this hasn't happened yet.
Right. But according to random people on Twitter, children are dying en masse in hospitals. Strange.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 05:23 PM   #68
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Per enorbet's post 59
Quote:
1)Live, attenuated vaccines fight viruses and bacteria. These vaccines contain a version of the living virus or bacteria that has been weakened so that it does not cause serious disease in people with healthy immune systems. (eg: Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chicken Pox)
Post #56
Quote:
A "vaccine" introduces dead or attenuated particles
An attenuated particle is live see the above definition and which you seem to acknowledge.
Dead particles are type 2 i.e inactivated.



Post #63
Quote:
A 'vaccine' is not active.
Not all vaccines are live/active just type 1.

The numbers are just in reference to post #59...

Last edited by michaelk; 08-06-2021 at 05:47 PM.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 05:44 PM   #69
m.a.l.'s pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Olmy View Post
But according to random people on Twitter, children are dying en masse in hospitals. Strange.
Lol. I don't do Twitter, so I wouldn't know what they're saying.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 05:56 PM   #70
Ser Olmy
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Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
Lol. I don't do Twitter, so I wouldn't know what they're saying.
Me neither, but for some odd reason the article included a screenshot from Twitter of some person claiming that lots of children in Tennessee were dying in hospitals. Right below the part of the article that expressly stated this was not in fact happening.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 06:02 PM   #71
m.a.l.'s pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Olmy View Post
Me neither, but for some odd reason the article included a screenshot from Twitter of some person claiming that lots of children in Tennessee were dying in hospitals. Right below the part of the article that expressly stated this was not in fact happening.
The tweet I see in that article says "children have already died..." It doesn't say "en masse." It doesn't say "lots." Maybe you're seeing something I'm not seeing, not sure.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 06:08 PM   #72
michaelk
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I believe that Florida and Texas are the top 2 areas for children infected with covid. Just read that in Texas a child was just airlifted 150 miles due to lack of hospital beds.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 06:11 PM   #73
Ser Olmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
The tweet I see in that article says "children have already died..." It doesn't say "en masse." It doesn't say "lots." Maybe you're seeing something I'm not seeing, not sure.
The whole point of the article was that children were supposedly at risk. The Tweet was included in that context.

I don't believe the Twitter user or the author of the article meant to point out that at some point, some children have died from COVID-19 (about 360 in total in the entire US, if I recall correctly). Nor do I believe that the idea was to point out that actually, in the history of the world, there have been many instances where children have died in hospital.

The tweet does actually make the claim that these deaths were somehow preventable, which I seriously doubt.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 06:16 PM   #74
m.a.l.'s pa
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Whatever, just pointing out that what you said was in the tweet was not actually what was written. What you believe or don't believe... No comment on that.
 
Old 08-06-2021, 06:18 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
I believe that Florida and Texas are the top 2 areas for children infected with covid. Just read that in Texas a child was just airlifted 150 miles due to lack of hospital beds.
Due to the lack of pediatric hospital beds.

Because the hospital she was first brought to, the Lyndon B Johnson hospital, does not provide pediatric services at all. Other hospitals in the immediate area had limited pediatric capacity, but if you read the reports carefully, you'll see it was not because of COVID cases. There's been a spike of COVID-19 ICU cases in general, but the patients are not children.

Fortunately, it seems the baby girl will make a complete recovery.
 
  


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