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Old 08-04-2021, 03:25 AM   #1
enorbet
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Regarding Covid Vaccine


If you haven't been vaccinated yet you might not want to read this because I'm angry with you. My Ex-wife just died in a hospital in St, Croix and not from the liver problems she was in for but simply because half the nurses refused vaccination. She died over a 4 day period from respiratory failure brought on by Covid 19. The governor went on TV and Radio to mention her case in an appeal to get people to vaccinate.

More generally in the past couple weeks communities like Cape Cod and other locations around the world with very high rates of vaccination opened up publicly no longer requiring masks. Since the same sorts of people who are too skeptical about vaccine are very often those who are also reluctant if not refusing to wear masks (which BTW mainly protect others from you, not you from them) now, when we should have reached herd immunity, we haven't... and you who who don't trust any and all experts (as long as the field is about you rather than say plumbing or your car) are to blame.


Here's the real skinny since enough time has passed to gather solid data. Right now there are for example a few hundred new cases in Cape Cod which has well in excess of 70% vaccination rate, but thousands of new cases in places like Missouri and Alabama (you know... the veritable bastions of intellect and civic responsibility) are proportionate to the 30% rates in those states. In every location new infection rates follow the rate of vaccination. More vaccinated, less new infection. Oh yeah and the death rates are climbing like crazy because of the Delta variant.

I'd say I started this thread to appeal to anti-vaxxers but I'm not because I doubt you're going to listen to anybody until those close to you start dying off in large numbers. I am writing to you to ask you to notice how many governments are now considering MANDATING VACCINATION!

Bottom Line - The vaccines work as proven by the difference in rates and conversely are undermined by the numbers who don't get vaccinated and now you have given the government an in, a good reason to force it and set a possibly dangerous precedent. Brilliant strategy! <sarc>
 
Old 08-04-2021, 06:27 AM   #2
hazel
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In general I agree with you. All health and care workers should be vaccinated. I respect conscientious objections but it seems to me that these are overridden by the duty of care to the vulnerable people they interact with.

I am somewhat less happy about the vaccination of young people in general in developed countries. They are not at great risk from covid and most of them do not come into contact with people whom they could harm by spreading it. Their own grandparents are probably double-jabbed by now, in the UK any way (maybe not in America). There are huge swathes of Africa, South Asia and South America where very few health workers or old people are vaccinated. These have not only become killing grounds but they are also breeding grounds for new and increasingly dangerous strains. Surely it would be better to use our limited supplies of vaccines to vaccinate these people rather than our own teenagers.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 08:08 AM   #3
Ser Olmy
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I'm very sorry to hear about your ex-wife, @enorbet.

While it may not provide any comfort, there seems to be a consensus that while the mRNA vaccine is very effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19, it does not actually prevent the infection itself, and vaccinated individuals still spread the virus. In other words, even if all the nurses were vaccinated, they would still infect patients.

BTW, here's a preprint of the report from the Pfizer-sponsored 6 month double blind trial. The vaccinated group hardly ever developed COVID-19, but interestingly the (very low) number of deaths were the same as in the unvaccinated control group.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 08:29 AM   #4
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
In general I agree with you. All health and care workers should be vaccinated. I respect conscientious objections but it seems to me that these are overridden by the duty of care to the vulnerable people they interact with.

I am somewhat less happy about the vaccination of young people in general in developed countries. They are not at great risk from covid and most of them do not come into contact with people whom they could harm by spreading it. Their own grandparents are probably double-jabbed by now, in the UK any way (maybe not in America). There are huge swathes of Africa, South Asia and South America where very few health workers or old people are vaccinated. These have not only become killing grounds but they are also breeding grounds for new and increasingly dangerous strains. Surely it would be better to use our limited supplies of vaccines to vaccinate these people rather than our own teenagers.
The Delta variant is different, and more old people are vaccinated. The current pattern is that more young people and children are admitted. And dying!

I stand for freedom and rights, but will support mandatory vaccination if it is proposed. This comes down to survival.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 08:42 AM   #5
Ser Olmy
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Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
The Delta variant is different, and more old people are vaccinated. The current pattern is that more young people and children are admitted. And dying!
I have heard some talking heads on TV state this as fact, but I've not been able to find any sources to confirm it.

The latest figures I have are these: In the entire US, less than 400 children under 13 have died from COVID-19 according to the official statistics, and is seems all of them had serious comorbidities. That's less than 400 out of about 70 million, which according to my calculator is less than 0.0006%. That's such a small number that these children are actually significantly more likely to suffer the very rare but serious side-effects of the vaccine than dying from the disease.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 09:36 AM   #6
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Olmy View Post
I'm very sorry to hear about your ex-wife, @enorbet.
Thank you, Ser Olmy. Your kindness is appreciated. My heart goes out to all who have suffered this affliction. It's a particularly nasty way to end one's life.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 09:53 AM   #7
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I think one point the OP is trying to make is that in the US hot zones hospitalizations rates are such that ICUs are at capacity. Unfortunately due to limited staffing other critical patients may not get the required care needed but also COVID patients waiting for ICU beds to become available may die at home. If more people were vaccinated it could keep the hospitalization rate low regardless of its infectious rate. I am also sorry to hear about your ex-wife.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 10:00 AM   #8
sundialsvcs
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You said that your ex-wife was in for "liver problems." So, she had a very serious "co-morbidity." Likely a very weakened immune system. Pneumonia – from any source – is a common cause-of-death for people who are hospitalized in such situations.

These potions are not "vaccines." They cause your body to produce a pathogen, then to turn against itself and kill all of the cells that are doing so – and they could be anywhere and everywhere. They do cross the blood/brain barrier. This form of therapy has never been approved for use in humans because it killed way too many laboratory animals ... sometimes in very gruesome ways. Furthermore, they didn't prevent the disease!

With now over 10,000 deaths and over 100,000 people who wish they were dead, all due to apparent autoimmune reactions, there are plenty of reasons for people to conclude that these potions are dangerously unsafe. And, with infections cropping up in people who have been "jabbed," and sometimes being unusually serious, there are plenty of reasons also to conclude that they are ineffective. Why expose yourself potentially-terrible risks by taking something that ... doesn't work?

The law says that you cannot be coerced into taking any drug nor undergoing any medical treatment. You must be fully informed of all potential negative side effects – hence the "rapid mumbling" in every pharma TV advertisement. You must make "informed consent," without pressure and with the advice of your physician. But these laws are being thrown to the four winds. And "Big Pharma" is suddenly making tens of billions of dollars in profits from potions which had been worthless ... thanks to "emergency use authorizations" and the utter lie that "no other effective treatments exist." This is what enabled them to side-step the trials of safety and efficacy which they could never pass.

You must have the exclusive right to make a personal decision regarding your own body. No one has a "right" to remain healthy, and no one is "putting other people at risk" for refusing to put into their body what they judge to be an unsafe and ineffective "jab."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-04-2021 at 10:12 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 10:12 AM   #9
michaelk
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Quote:
These potions are not "vaccines." They cause your body to produce a pathogen, then to turn against and kill all of the cells that are doing so – and they could be anywhere and everywhere. This form of therapy has never been approved for use in humans because it killed way too many laboratory animals ... sometimes in very gruesome ways. Furthermore, they didn't prevent the disease.

With now over 10,000 deaths and over 100,000 people who wish they were dead, all due to apparent autoimmune reactions, there are plenty of reasons for people to conclude that these potions are dangerously unsafe. And, with infections cropping up in people who have been "jabbed," and sometimes being unusually serious, there are plenty of reasons also to conclude that they are ineffective.
FYI the Pfizer vaccine should be fully authorized in the next few weeks. You have posted the same nonsense numerous times that has no basis with actual facts. According to the CDC breakthrough cases are 0.004% of people fully vaccinated that has resulted in hospitalization.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 11:38 AM   #10
sundialsvcs
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If anyone is "fully vaccinated" but subsequently comes down with the disease – especially(!) to a degree that "requires hospitalization," then the jab did not work. Period. It did not confer immunity. All over the world we are now encountering people – a very large number of people – who had received a shot and who then got sick ... sometimes, apparently due to "ADE," becoming very sick. We should have stopped the program until we fully understood what was going on – as we did do in the past.

I fully expect the potions to be approved for political reasons, but not because they met the prescribed standards of safety and effectiveness. Very likely, "medical emergencies" and "emergency use authorizations" will become the New Normal, because these will eliminate big expenses for drug companies.

When literally thousands of people post on VAERS that people are dying or being grievously injured by autoimmune reactions, you're supposed to stop what you are doing at once. But drug companies only see windfall profits and immunity from any legal liability. (Which immunity they of course should not have.) This is an extremely dangerous situation.

No one has ever attempted to use "messenger RNA" as the basis of a therapy, and they were not even getting close to starting a human trial when Fauci got his "billion-dollar idea." We know that the body will attack and kill any cell that is expressing the spike protein – in other words, that these potions will trigger an autoimmune response. We know that the potions can enter the brain. We know that any cell anywhere in the body can take up the message and be destroyed. And we don't know enough about the workings of "messenger RNA" to understand what the consequences might be. We are seeing credible reports of "draconian consequences," but we appear to be ignoring them in the pursuit of financial gain.

This. Is. Not. A. "Vaccine."

Like I've said, "thalidomide was approved, too."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-04-2021 at 11:52 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 12:20 PM   #11
cynwulf
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Oh dear...

But sundial is right in that people need to decide what they get injected with. Not the government nor corporations nor pressures of society. Mass (often media induced) panic often has certain people crying for others' liberties to be removed - that's normal and also how dictators rose to power.

Some of you seem to be advocating holding people down and stabbing them with needles? Or do you propose to jail them all?

Carry on...

Last edited by cynwulf; 08-04-2021 at 12:23 PM.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 02:12 PM   #12
michaelk
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There is a US Federal law that allows the mandate of requiring employees to be vaccinated in order to be hired and requiring students to be vaccinated in order to attend school. The exception is for health and religious reasons.

For the many jobs that work with the public I do not find this a liberty or freedom of right issue. Don't most people still get vaccinated for childhood diseases? What about adult diseases like hpv or shingles? Does anyone get booster shots?.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 02:41 PM   #13
teckk
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Quote:
Some of you seem to be advocating holding people down and stabbing them with needles? Or do you propose to jail them all?
I wondered about that. For the people who aren't vaccinated as of now. It is because they don't want to. If you come to their door and they refuse to open. Then what? Are you going to break the door down like they do with a warrant?

First of all, there aren't enough police to do that. Secondly, I think that police departments will refuse to do that. Thirdly, I think that there will be scores of people shot. And I don't mean with a needle. Fourthly, where is the lawful authority to do that? I don't think that you have even seen rebellion yet, if you try and do that. You'll have government offices burned down.

Or should they simply be refused participation in any work-play-social gathering unless they vaccinate. That would be a better idea. But, how are you going to enforce that. This is the computer age, a card can be forged. Or people will lie.

Quote:
Don't most people still get vaccinated for childhood diseases?
Some states mandate, some don't.
Kind of a different thing though. If your kid ain't vaccinated then he can't enroll in school. It is against the law for your child to not school, under 16 usually. So if you don't vaccinate then you'll have to pay for some private school, or tutor for them, or home school. And they hate home schooling anyway because home schooled kids have for decades done better on tests than government school indoctrinated kids. They don't hold the kids down and vaccinate them, you just can't come to school. And there aren't enough truant officers to enforce kids not in school
 
Old 08-04-2021, 04:03 PM   #14
igadoter
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I heard about new variant in Peru: lambda. Supposedly very resistant to all known already vaccines. If this is the case lambda will be a cause of next wave after delta of infections increase.

I posted this many times and I post again: scientifically all what is done now has no justification. I am not posting about bio-technology and its capability to provide engineering on level cells. I am posting about methodology. All, all possible methodological rules were broken. All.

In fact we wasted almost all year. At least. But it may happen to even two years. This is true source of problems. Everywhere governments seems have no idea what to do. Pray? They promised so much. More and more they became hystericall. They fear that promises will be never fulfilled. Then society may require heads of those politicians.

Governments created kind of teams of experts. Well payed for sure. There is one problem. All these experts share the same point of view as government. So the facto these "experts" serve only one purpose: to justify decisions. To search for sensible justifications.

So in reality - except bio-technologists - there is almost no scientists involved.

People are disgusted of those who don't want to take vaccine - I don't want. I am disgusted when I hear "to go back to normal". There is no "go back to normal". We are lying to ourselves all the time.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 05:04 PM   #15
sundialsvcs
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[i]"Guess what? Corona and Rhino viruses mutate!"

In fact, they do it constantly. Which is why we've never been able to "immunize" against "the common cold." It is also why this much-hyped "potion" won't work – very-visibly isn't working – either.

There is no "central source of 'mutations,'" such as would allow us to assign a Greek letter to them, because the mutation process is ... random. There is absolutely nothing out there which says ... "okay, we're now going to coin another 'variant,' assign it a Greek letter, and then we're going to manufacture trillions of absolutely-identical copies of it."

The folks who are now talking about these "variants," and who are trying to assign blame to anyone who wisely declined to obey them, are very-simply trying to cover-up for the fact that their extremely-dangerous potions don't work.

They're also trying to cover for the fact that they vastly overstated the actual "public health hazard." Perhaps, before they deploy their next bio-weapon, they need to focus a little more carefully on that "gain of function" bit . . .

First, you'd better be damned-sure that the virus you manufactured really is as deadly as you thought it would be. Then, you'd also better be damned-sure that the "miracle cure" which you'd engineered to counter it actually worked. Sure looks to me like you failed on both counts.

"If I were a guessing man," I'd say that you guessed that you'd "gain-of-functioned" a virus such that you actually thought that it would attack the whole world ... that those "hospital ships" would be necessary and so on. Then, you calculated that you could, "at Warp Speed,™" ride to the rescue with your potions ... and make bezillions of dollars in the process. But, on both counts, the biology of the matter did not meet your expectations . . .

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-04-2021 at 05:14 PM.
 
  


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