rant: some can't afford what LQ users recommend
 

I would like to express my annoyance at something I've seen repeatedly in LQ users' comments: "well, do x instead to solve your problem, because it just doesn't cost very much anymore," e.g., recommending an obvious but more costly solution when I implied I would rather use the cheaper but possibly less convenient solution I proposed. I feel such responses display lack of awareness of the privation and need to save money that this bad economy has engendered. The last time I saw this was when I talked about how some distro has only a DVD-sized version and I wished it could fit on a CD (mostly because CDs cheaper than DVDs). All anyone could say was "Well, use DVDs anyway because they're cheaper than they used to be." Yeah, well, CDs are cheaper still, and even if the economy weren't crushed, I'm frugal. I guess most LQ users are less frugal.

A fitting rant, these are dire times where every single cent counts. I should know, I just bought a house...
Being frugal, however, is an aquired quality. Aquired in time. I can appreciate that frugalnes and age somehow are in sync...the older the more frugal, or, the older, the more profoundly things get valued. I for one can share the utter horror to see a CDrom with space for 650-700 Mb filled with one folder containing four pictures in total of...a mere 15Mb....what a waste. Both the money, and the environment. Use mail, or sneakernet instead.
Eh, it's an other of those things young ones have, along with loud music, speeding and stuff...kids of today...
I can relate, believe me...

Thor

Not always. I'm 32 years old and was frugal at least as early as age 13 (the age I took to recycling like a fish to water). I also generally have to be dragged kicking and screaming into spending money.

Umm, sorry, by age, I meant maturity...sorry for the wrong word ;)

If you're too cheap to buy a DVD then google "iso to usb" and skip the dvd and use one of your old USB thumb drives. There is a point where my time is worth more than the cost associated with something. A quick look online at one of the office stores show about $4 difference for a pack of 50.

A pack of 50? How many people want 50 CDs or DVDs?

But if you want Linux to use rather than to tinker with, then a CD with hardly any software is not really a good idea. The thing that puzzles me are the distros that boast that they keep it small enough for a 1GB USB stick. Things are obviously different in Britain, where you can't find one less than 4GB in the shops.

It's $25 for 50. I'm still using a 50 pack I bought 5 years ago. I suppose you can buy them in smaller quantities but you end up paying more per DVD to do so.

You can't find less than 4GB unless you want to buy one of the animal character ones at the checkout next to the gum for about the same price or a little more than the 4GB version.

I don't understand that. I do generally want my Linux to use rather than to tinker with, but even so, why do I need most or all of my nonessential software included on the installation disc when I can download it as soon as my internet connection is up and running? I've figured out by now that Linux lives online.

Not me, unless I see an awfully good deal. I think 50 or more is more than I need on hand.

...umm, I dont really think THAT's the point here, oh sure, anyone can grab a stack of DVD's, no sweat, but...what's the better (more profitable) use here? Okay, let's assume you'd burn a DVD...I'd like to challenge anyone: where does it end up? Somewhere on a shelf...and under some dust :D what a waste, innit? I think that's where OP wants to get this rant to...and, yup, I could follow him...

I don't disagree with the OP entirely but I also know that if you save up for a few months then you ought to be able to afford a 2GB USB stick, for example, and do away with the environmental and monetary waste of optical media.
Yes $10 is $10 but to my mind it's better than fooling around with a bunch of CD ROMs.

Perhaps. Also better than fooling around with CD drives. After an unusual number of distro installations that suspiciously don't work right in one way or another, I suspect a problem with at least one of my drives.

I'll have to play "devil's advocate" here and say I have felt disrespected numerous times on these forums (not singling out the OP or anyone else posting in this thread :)) when users have rejected my good advice because it will cost them a couple of $$. All too often, people under-value their time in the equation. If a $1 blank DVD, $10 thumb drive, or $50 RAM upgrade will instantly and effortlessly solve your problem, saving you many hours of frustration, then just do it---don't ask me to waste my time typing out a longer, more complex solution catering to your frugality, that may or may not even work.

Sorry for the rant. :)

@ snowpine: touché, nonetheless, sometimes spooning out "yet more cash" can get frustrating. Okay, let's assume the next $50 will solve the current problem, then...what'll be next?
Of course, it's not so much the cost of a disk, but more the "where will it end" issue...
I can not always relate, though, because right now, I have six workable systems, and the next one is about to arrive...as a hand-me-down. I have yet to buy a new PC... :D
Frugalness can be a need, an art and a sport...
Just the other day, I received two dozen of memory units ... for free... max 256 Mb per stick and worthless by any current standard...but an upgrade never came this cheap... :)

It's all the "where will it end" thing and moreover the ease some people display in "just burning a DVD" or "just getting this or that cable"...this can be somewhat, well, let's just say: some of us count the pennies... :)

You know I have a PC with SATA connection as well as IDE? Since I did'nt want to "spend yet again"...I set it up with a (yes hand-me-down) drive of 80Gb, while a simple little cable of some euro's/Dollars could hurl it into the terrabytes of SATA...question: do I NEED all of the umpff .. now???

Hehe.... :)

I gave up on spinning optical media after buying a replacemnent for a replacement of a DVD drive on an otherwise fine PC, oh, and a replacement for the CD also.
I buy things I hope will work in years to come -- the phone I type this on may be 5 years old and my EEEPC is still doing good service, my old media player is still going strong after what must be 7 years and there are still few players with a larger HDD.
Plan for the future but also realise that everything will become obsolete -- even, no, especially ourselves.

If hard cost limits are part of your requirements, then you should mention them up front.

Personally, I like to see topics where many alternate ideas are expressed. Everyone learns that way. This is the point of a forum, it is not supposed to be limited.



Why don't you try DVD-ram disks? You can use them for years and years.


I do try to offer alternate solutions. Sometimes the OP (as well as myself) is set in their ways and can't see outside of their box as it were. I have seen many of the issues posted and offer advice based on that experience. I don't recommend 5 inch floppies anymore based on that.

I did that, before the rise of the USB stick. They were expensive and very difficult to find. They are also incredibly slow to write. It's also important to reformat: if the UDF filing system gets broken you can't (or you couldn't) repair it in Linux.

LOL! You'll not even find 'em anymore, let alone be able to use 'em...

Look, it's simple, a USB 2.0 and a decent stick, and you're set. But...it's the never ending "spenderism" some people profess, as if cash grows on trees. Of course, it sometimes does wear out, okay, believe me, I have a 5" drive (somewhere) but I outgrew it...on my own time and pace. Not because 3.5" (then) became the "thing" and later other stuff became the hype. But because I outgrew it...
It's a process, just like the evolution of persistent storage... :)

90% of my DVD's are DVD+-RW
i keep a small set of dvd -r and dvd +r but most are on dvd rw

the same gos for CD's most i use are cd rw

I to HATE putting 8 to 24 megs on a cd +-r


i do have a old box with a 3.5 in "floppy" but if i give a few floppys to someone they can not use them

Usually when people stop patching things to keep it going just that little bit longer. It's like rust in a car, if you put bog in it to hide it the rust is still there, if you get the rust cut out and clean metal put back in properly your issue is gone.

If you can't afford it, then say so, or ignore the opinion. No, but you see there are people who hate others' opinions so much that when they see them, they will flame away doggedly on nearly every one of the user's posts until the user gets fed up and leaves.

Don't worry, pretty soon, you won't get any opinions because you've driven them all away. Then you can do what you want in silence, if you know what to do that is. If not, then you just sit in silence.

there's been flaming here? Not by me... :)

Yup, at some point, enough is enough...just...where and when is that point?

No, but if you check other posts, including recent ones by me in General, you will see who has been trolling. Flaming is more rare, but it does happen.

I can't really blame anyone in particular. I suppose it's just the way the world is now. Everyone is angry and frustrated and they want to take it out on someone. I don't even play online video games anymore because of it. I do not worry, these angry people will get a way to vent it soon enough, and the problem will take care of itself.

Tried Runescape? An MMORPG you can play all on your own, I do, and it's fun. If I dont feel like talking, I dont talk, simple...
No need to hide in the shadow.... :)

Hmm, that's what I think started this thread: a moment of frustration, a little too much need to reach out...and BAM.
People feel somewhat helpless of late, and who can blame 'em?
I dont, and I know ... neither do you :D

Yes, well, that has nothing to do with me--I think I haven't spoken to you recently. But under current economic conditions, I think anyone who assumes an OP can necessarily run out and buy new equipment is out of touch. The opposite should probably be a default assumption. That if I didn't solve the problem with some equipment by throwing it away and replacing it, it was because I probably can't.

I think it is more complicated than that. For example you can buy a USB stick, install things with that and save money overall instead of buying disks. Now, personally, I don't trust USB sticks for backing up data, so I would not use them to backup my data (or at least as the sole means). I suppose you could save money by backing up to a USB stick, but if it becomes corrupted ... the price goes up.

You cannot know an optimal solution until it has been proposed, tried and tested, and found to work for you. You can't restrict people from giving your their opinion, because buying new equipment may be the best and most cost efficient thing to do in some/many cases.

Again, let people state their opinion, and if you don't like it, then ignore it, or say that it's not for you and why. Maybe they will change their mind, or maybe you will. Maybe what is lacking overall is sensible conversation or discussion. All I hear are arguments and destructive criticism. Again, part of the general anger and frustration, probably due to the same things you mentioned ... economic problems.

Yes, I played it for a while, but it gets boring. I might play it again.