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scott_R 01-14-2004 02:49 AM

Question for Apple fans
 
Sorry if this sounds like a troll, I don't mean it to be one, but I know it might incite some violent remarks. Anyway, I'm back at school again, this time for robotics. (Linux's industrial robotics support is nearly negligible, a good part of my being there, more to follow later, hopefully in a more productive way.)

In my free time before a class, I took some time to aquaint myself with the Apple boxes there. (It was the first day, and I had three hours before class because my prof. didn't want to go into any "work" the first day.) They are OSX computers, and my last Apple experience was with an ancient form of Mac OS. (Don't remember the exact version, but it was a new Apple in 1995.)

Anyway, I wasn't entirely impressed. Sure, it wasn't bad, but it felt really old. Part of the problem was simply that it was missing a wheel on the mouse. Perhaps there is an Apple version of a wheelmouse, but without it, it felt like Win95. These mice were plastic covers that you pressed down on, instead of the "button" to click. The only real difference between Mac OSX and any other OS that I noticed was that the "minimize, maximize, close" buttons were on the opposite side of the window, and in a different order.

I understand that part of the appeal of Apple is that everything's easy to plug in and use, but am I missing anything here? The options that were available weren't that persuasive, and the menu options weren't especially descriptive. It didn't help that most of the offerings (and I realize it's the school's fault, not the box's) were only MS Office.

So, if this is a question, are there, aside from hardware/installation issues, any real advantages to an Apple? Back years ago, Apple had better graphics stuff, but that seems a moot issue nowadays.

Mods, sorry if this feels like a troll, I'm just curious, as is my sister. We know a few people that recommend Apples to us all the time, but without something offered up by Apple users, I can't see why. I'm hoping those that are fans and know the system well will respond to give me a fair assessment of OSX's advantages. BTW, I actually like Free/OpenBSD, so that's part of why I'm not so impressed with the OS so far.

williamwbishop 01-14-2004 06:50 AM

the mac's are a superior machine. Sure, you can build a better beast, and you can tweak your OS to be just as slick, stable, and smart....but if you don't want to spend the time, you can hardly go wrong with a mac. I personally love 'em, but being a nerd at heart...they're just no fun. They rarely break, and I kind of like to reinstall every few weeks, be it linux or windows. Sure, you don't have to, but it's fun.

Gill Bates 01-14-2004 07:51 AM

macs arent necessarily superior, they are on par with the fastest pc machines, but faster with the heavily optimised apps. great as lap tops.
IMO the price/performance ratio simple isnt worth it (laptop different story!). apart from that as far as OSX goes what version was it?
the first release did have teething problems but now they are on to 10.3 panther which can run X11 apps along side aqua apps, so i could get the best of both worlds -> flash and dreamweaver for mac, gimp from x11, and all my nix programs. graphics performance is back up to normal.
if i dont like the aqua interface i just load kde or windowmaker and the only difference it the mouse (not bad really since i try to use the mouse as little as possible)

so i guess the biggest advantage is that is a nix with a whole load of commercial applications! which is a very big YES to a lot of people

Baldorg 01-14-2004 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gill Bates
macs arent necessarily superior, they are on par with the fastest pc machines, but faster with the heavily optimised apps. great as lap tops.
IMO the price/performance ratio simple isnt worth it (laptop different story!). apart from that as far as OSX goes what version was it?
the first release did have teething problems but now they are on to 10.3 panther which can run X11 apps along side aqua apps, so i could get the best of both worlds -> flash and dreamweaver for mac, gimp from x11, and all my nix programs. graphics performance is back up to normal.
if i dont like the aqua interface i just load kde or windowmaker and the only difference it the mouse (not bad really since i try to use the mouse as little as possible)

so i guess the biggest advantage is that is a nix with a whole load of commercial applications! which is a very big YES to a lot of people

Incredible! UNIX can now run X programs! I waited for that ,like, years!

GaX 01-14-2004 09:44 AM

Stability Issues
 
I want to make myself clear from the beginning: I crash stuff. You find something for me, I WILL crash it (usually accidentally). (I can crash a calculator just as often as any computer as proof.)

Question:
With that said, I would like to make a very earnest query: how does mac OS 10.3 fare with the crashes?

Constraints:
Now that I've asked a question, here are the constraints. If you have no experience with computers crashing, then don't answer me. If you think Linux is stable, then don't answer me. And if all you do on your computer is listen to music, browse the internet, and use office applications, then you are no help to me either. This is because there are a lot of people out there who "think" something only because they have never pushed the limits on their computers or explorered more than one type of operating system.

Background:
Up until this summer, all of my friends and professors who use macs offer their wisdom on the superior nature of macs. I've also had several people suggest that Linux is stable. I am a Windows to Linux convert at the moment, but I must say Linux can trump any other OS I've USED in configurability, but it is too easy to screw up and I'm already tired of crashed applications forcing me to reboot. As a Windows XP user, I was quite happy and experienced very FEW crashes (but I of course knew what I was doing, unlike with Linux). Most crashes or problems I had in XP were due to driver problems, which were usually easy to fix. And last summer, I used a mac with OS 9.1 (or maybe 9.2...) where the crashes just sort of became a way of life.

Conclusion:
From reading around, some people have crashes all the time while others very rarely see a hiccup from whatever operating system they are using. The only line of operating systems I have not tried with extensive personal experience is OS 10.x with the most stable being winXP, with Mandrake Linux 9.1 in second place and mac OS 9.x falling off the scales. By the looks of it, I like what I see, with OS 10.x, but for you hardcore computer users out there, how does it stack up against other operating systems?

Side note: It is my belief that without the X-windows interface Linux would be incredibly stable. However, every other operating system I've used has had an extensive GUI, so it only makes since to compare Linux with a GUI.

Gill Bates 01-14-2004 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baldorg
Incredible! UNIX can now run X programs! I waited for that ,like, years!
assuming u are not being sarcastic, unix always could run X programs. Xserver was written with that purpose in mind.
or maybe u meant Mac OSX? it could too, but u had to install xfree86 urself and rn the app from the xserver not aqua

Baldorg 01-14-2004 11:29 AM

I was being sarcastic.

frieza 01-14-2004 11:33 AM

i like mac, but then again i also installed linux on my mac as well :)

XavierP 01-14-2004 04:18 PM

If you plug in a 'normal' usb mouse, you can use it quite happily on a Mac (not that I use them...:))

Nukem 01-14-2004 06:04 PM

The only reason we use Apples in science dept. in my school is, it is easier to put it on a stand and take them around anywhere, just like a TV, and not heavy. Also, the only time we need to move computers around is for labs, that we have to use plug and play devices like motion sensors, camaras, and stuff.
The reason that part of the art dept. has Apples is there is a graphic designing course.
Other than this, there is no use of apples.
since school has only two options, either Windows NT or Mac, let's not involve linux.

Look at word processing. What will most people choose if they have an option between MSWord, and Apple works? It's ovious that the choice would be MS word.

Database. Everyone knows that when it comes to do database projects, Excel beats Apple works in every possible way.

Presentations. Making a presentation with Apple? I have no clue about that...

GAMING IN APPLE??? YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS SHORT VIDEO CLIP:)

http://webdev.o1.com/rvb/movies/switch/RvB_switch.mov

XavierP 01-14-2004 06:16 PM

Excellent clip! Loved the upgrade method - "You just pick it up, throw it away and go buy a new one".

Cool.

And a big Woo-Yay :D

Gill Bates 01-14-2004 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baldorg
I was being sarcastic.
so where are ur sarcasim tags?

Gill Bates 01-14-2004 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nukem

Database. Everyone knows that when it comes to do database projects, Excel beats Apple works in every possible way.

access:tisk:

Nukem 01-14-2004 06:29 PM

sorry about that.. what I really ment was access.

witeshark 01-14-2004 06:44 PM

Macs are essentially uncrashable. But then i had a win me that i managed to keep to only 2 crashes in 3 years. I guarantee every problem even remotely resembling a crash will be traceable to a permissions or cron task sloppiness. Mac OS X and all the Mac apps are just a treat in every way! Hardware quality is world class as well. The single button mouse is a GOOD idea --why should the mouse do all the work? Thats why there is a keyboard with the command button.


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