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Old 11-17-2016, 07:24 PM   #421
jamison20000e
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What do you think of jefro's post?
I approve
Your comments on this post:

only human
 
Old 11-17-2016, 08:10 PM   #422
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
@ sundialsvcs - No fundamental difference? I agree that the difference is smaller than is likely good for the Country but nonexistent? So you think that JFK and Nixon were "potato/pototo"? How 'bout Bush (either one) vs/ Obama? Same? Sorry, I don't see it.
I didn't mean the statement to be taken that literally. What I meant was that, for these past thirty-plus years, we never had any leader who stood up and said that we should not be doing this sort of thing.

It will be an interesting 2017-and-beyond. We have had Presidents who were military officers and professional politicians, but we've never in a very long time had anyone who was truly a business executive. We've never had anyone who was actually a CEO.
 
Old 11-17-2016, 08:30 PM   #423
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Or, "god..."
 
Old 11-17-2016, 09:51 PM   #424
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Us stupid http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5631837
 
Old 11-18-2016, 05:41 AM   #425
wpeckham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I didn't mean the statement to be taken that literally. What I meant was that, for these past thirty-plus years, we never had any leader who stood up and said that we should not be doing this sort of thing.

It will be an interesting 2017-and-beyond. We have had Presidents who were military officers and professional politicians, but we've never in a very long time had anyone who was truly a business executive. We've never had anyone who was actually a CEO.
An therein lies the problem. If you look at what corporations have done to the U.S. economy, look at the history of this specific 'businessman' and his treatment of his employees and dependents, we have reason to worry. A LOT!
 
Old 11-18-2016, 08:06 AM   #426
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Sadly, instead of voting for better representatives, gullible people insist in listening to the media circus, and like Pavlov's dogs are tricked into believing that "the government" (an imperfect but democratic institution) is the enemy, whereas "CEOs" (wo are not elected by anyone) will magically solve people's problems. Yeah, sure. Just as Jesus will come tomorrow to clean up the mess. Now you're going to throw even more hundreds of billions into useless weapons and fossil fuels, as that's exactly what your "CEOs" want, as well as more tax reductions for them (not for you). So much for hope and change, eh? Who cares then about the future of the planet, social justice, even plain respect? Not that the other main snake-oil seller candidate was much more desirable, but didn't you folks have anyone damn better to put in charge? Just wake up, instead of throwing democracy, bit after bit, into the toilet. And with "democracy" I mean the real thing, not the one you've been screwing up the planet with. The rest of the world is waiting. Now go to Italy and see what are the results of "CEOs" being put in charge...
 
Old 11-18-2016, 08:33 AM   #427
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I think that this man is well on his way to figuring out that this job is unlike any other job he has ever held.

One thing can surely be said of the American Presidency: "if young men go in to the Office, old men come out."

It's much too soon to take the measure of this man. (I don't put much credence into his disreputable election campaign, "successful" though it may have been, but that's another story.) I do think, however, that he was serious all the time. I'm cautiously optimistic that he will learn how to be a statesman, and that he will prove to have executive leadership skills which he will learn how to usefully apply.

He's certainly got his job set out for him: a board-of-directors of over 650 people, which do not have to answer to him, and he can't say "Yer Fired!" to any of them. Executive responsibility for an organization that has over 350 million "stakeholders" (not to mention a vast number of employees). And that's just the civilian side of things . . .

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-18-2016 at 08:37 AM.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 09:57 AM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Speaking of past presidents, the Kennedy and LBJ era didn't do much for the working class. In fact there was a terrible recession in the early 60's. Mounting wars in Vietnam nearly to it's height under LBJ. Nixon at least ended the war. Obama didn't do anything for the working class that I've seen. He didn't do much for the war on terror either. Clinton did the worst anyone could with NAFTA. Reagan almost broke the nation but ended up breaking up the USSR in a spending race.
It seems prudent to at least try to separate the man from the times. Things like War and Economics often take decades to finally be perceived. Was the assassination of ArchDuke Ferdinand really the cause of WWI or just the last straw of an excuse for building tensions and greed? As bad as LBJ may have been I'll take his War on Poverty over Nixon's War on Drugs any day, ll day long, to say nothing of the beginning of stacking the Supreme Court in earnest. NAFTA was not a good thing overall but Clinton, and his administration, did improve the economy overall especially for lower classes even after the smug lie of "trickle down" began the avalanche that would be the enrichment of the very wealthy at the expense of the working class.

IMHO the single most important issue any president can be involved in is Economics. Freedom is nearly useless without the power to enact and protect that freedom. Just look at tax structure and it is evident who helped the working man and who helped the already rich. Supply Side economics has been discredited in every study and model since it ignores that consumers must actually be able to afford goods and services, and suppliers will fire workers, close plants and move the workforce to wherever labor is cheapest as if they had no stake in their own country or the longterm viability of it's economy.

Make no mistake. The US Republican party has always been and still is "the party of the rich". Unfortunately while beginning as 'the party of the working man" the democratic party has been guilty of "Me Too" and influenced heavily by the republican successes at conning the working man that they are "not really wolves in sheep's clothing" so that Democrats have become increasingly elitist. Corporations scream lip service to Capitalism but they hate competition and spend vast sums to kill it. Where do you suppose that leads when corporations gain increasing political power to enact Law? So your reaction is to deny this trend, dismiss advances on behalf of the working class, and support even more of this same trend?... or maybe consider stopping the blind buying into ANY party line and just look at the record and actually halting such trends?

Last edited by enorbet; 11-18-2016 at 10:17 AM.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 11:38 AM   #429
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That is what my (now, two ...) blog posts on "Sustainable Capitalism" were really all about.

What we have right now ... in the United States but also in the world community ... is "everything that corporations wanted, asked for, and certainly paid for." But there's just one wee problem:
Quote:
"It Isn't Working."
Whether you're talking about American "for profit" health care, or the myriad "trade agreements" that have recently been foisted-off upon one country after another, or the "immigration" programs that are just "The Peculiar Institution™" slightly warmed-over, the Utopia dreamed by these corporations is actually revealed to be Dystopia.

And I would suggest that perhaps the root cause of the whole thing is that: "a Corporation, by definition and charter, is responsible to its Shareholders, but not its Stakeholders." Even though people famously once said that "What's good for General Motors is good for America," that really never was true. (Especially when General Motors discovered that they could build cars in other countries, and actually "get away with it," even as foreign manufacturers started building factories here!)

I just gotta ask the question of these folks: "Exactly which country do you belong to™, anyway?"

(Do you even have one? Do you even think that you "belong to™" anyone, anywhere, anymore?)

(Do you now think that the preceding question is [still ...] important? Or, do you suppose that "y-o-u (you lucky one-of-a-kind sot) have, like, somehow, "evolved?")

Yes, "Accountants, in their Infinite Wisdom" can tell you all about how money flows within a corporation, but their models cannot and do not describe any of the other stakeholders in the enterprise: customers, employees, suppliers and down-stream consumers. Therefore, these factors simply do not exist in the thinking of corporate officers anywhere, except to the extent that these things are perceived to benefit shareholders. (Especially, "Class-A Shareholders.")

What has taken place in about the last thirty years has been nothing but a growing disaster, although the corporatists will insist that this is not the case since this is what they asked paid good money for. I am therefore "morbidly interested" to find out how our next President will address these problems. He speaks the language and knows the game better than any of his professional-politician immediate predecessors. But, what will he do? And, will he be able to achieve successful executive leadership within an ever-fractuous Congress and the vast "Fourth Branch" of bureaus and departments?

If you asked me to be POTUS, I'd say, "not only 'no' but 'hell, no!'" But, that's not what he said . . .

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-18-2016 at 12:42 PM.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 11:57 AM   #430
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98%! Trump won popular vote in 3,084 of 3,141 counties in the U.S.

I'm not really 'into' politics/religion, but 98% (3084/3141) of US counties is ASTONISHING!
http://breitbart.com/big-government/...stream-america

(a 'political' friend sent that to all his contacts.
Is it 'really true' that the 'majority' of votes in 3084
of the 3141 US counties (&similar, per wikipedia)
were for Trump? Apparently yes.
Here's another Trump-ism I just got from same:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/...president.html

So, are we 'saved' yet? I have NO clue nor prediction.
As far a I know, "nothing matters; it's all IMAGE-inary".

Last edited by Jjanel; 11-20-2016 at 08:54 PM.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 12:13 PM   #431
jamison20000e
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Dammed if we do and dammed if we do, either way evolving... http://granitegrok.com/blog/2012/06/...evolving-obama
 
Old 11-18-2016, 12:51 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Meh... "who gives a damn about Obama anymore?" Let him go back to his classroom. Although, to his eternal credit, he did not seem to do anything "drastically wrong," I frankly think that History will also conclude that, well, "he did not seem to do much of anything."

Even though the man once made a good living at University, teaching about the Constitution, when he actually attained the office that the aforesaid document describes, I frankly think that he was clueless. (And there have certainly been a great many equally-clueless Officeholders before him ... people who, y'know, "first came, and then ,went."[/i] "With a whisper, not with a shout.")
  • "Yes," the man knew how to "work the then-developing public sentiment for 'change we need™'" well enough to first get elected.
  • Then, "yes, again," he knew enough to 'not get himself fired' ...
  • But, in the end, will History even remember that he came? Please, fill me in. "For what, exactly??" Seems to me that he is basically a "do-nothing President" who did nothing worth remembering him by. (Maybe he can now get his teaching-job back.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-18-2016 at 12:53 PM.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 02:37 PM   #433
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The last I heard, California was talking about seceding from the US and taking Oregon and Washington State with it. Are they crazy? The last time anyone tried that, there was a civil war followed by forcible reincorporation of the Rebel states.
 
Old 11-18-2016, 02:48 PM   #434
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I do not " know " Donald Trump but I have had to deal with men " like him " all of my life!! I expect President Trump and his " operatives " to bleed the Unites States for every dime and dollar that they can!! It is the young people who will have to suffer the consequences of the chaos to come!!
 
Old 11-18-2016, 03:06 PM   #435
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Quote:
"he did not seem to do much of anything.
I don't know about you. But when I was a foreman. If my workers did not do nothing. I would look bad.
So if a lame duck congress fights everything you are trying to accomplish.
Then who is to blame? Seeing that a president does not have power in the Senate. Who is fighting you tooth and nail.
Then a house of representatives with tea party members who only have hate on their agendas?

It was really surprising to me . How ingrained the hatred was just because Obama was a colored man.
How dare a black person tell a senator or a representative how to act.

History will probably show how racist our congress was during Obamas 2 terms.

But now that the white boys have bum rushed capitol hill. Everything will be peachy keen as fascist legislation and religious right
agendas will take over every day life. Hell, it has has already started in Tx. Schools have been

Quote:
“I’m proud of my kids. I think they have shown the kind of people they are. They believe in the Ten Commandments and they want to stand up for it,” she said.Students have posted dozens of ‘sticky notes’ with Bible verses on them throughout the school.
Who knows? Maybe burning at the stake will come back into fashion. I know crimes against Muslims via hate crime. Well, the statistics have gone up recently. Since the election.

It's a white folk thing. I oughta know. Being that I am white. Living in Tx.

But I bet it is a Tennessee thing also.
 
  


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