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Old 07-27-2020, 08:58 PM   #46
jefro
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I don't doubt that the origins of the virus were in nature. That doesn't preclude any sort of modification in a lab using natural culturing.

Most folks seem to believe that a lab grown virus "has" to have some artifacts. If someone did make it they wouldn't go to the bother of leaving clues usually.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 09:55 PM   #47
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AFAIK and as I've posted as of mid July the previously questionable DNA gap has been closed. Covid19 is 98.5% confirmed NOT engineered. Nature is not pop science. It's as real as it gets and ultra reliable.

Last edited by enorbet; 07-27-2020 at 09:57 PM.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
AFAIK and as I've posted as of mid July the previously questionable DNA gap has been closed.
Im not aware of this. So what fills this gap?
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:06 PM   #49
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Igadoter, and anyone else actually interested, should start here.....

https://www.nature.com/news/engineer...search-1.18787
 
Old 07-27-2020, 10:48 PM   #50
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I had a look at articles you posted links to. My opinion about SARS covid-2 being engineered relies on this article https://www.cambridge.org/core/servi...nfectivity.pdf I noticed also to my surprise this https://www.nature.com/news/us-suspe...search-1.16192. Some institutions in USA were supporting research in Wuhan prohibited in USA.
 
Old 07-28-2020, 07:10 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
My opinion about SARS covid-2 being engineered relies on this article https://www.cambridge.org/core/servi...220000083a.pdf
I don't see where that article suggests covid-2 is engineered?

Last edited by ntubski; 07-28-2020 at 07:11 AM. Reason: fix broken url tag in quote
 
Old 07-28-2020, 11:02 AM   #52
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I don't see where that article suggests covid-2 is engineered?
It is claim one of the author of this paper. I think that inserts mentioned in paper were created in laboratory not trough natural mutation.
 
Old 07-28-2020, 05:13 PM   #53
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Some interesting points. https://www.independentsciencenews.o...-a-lab-origin/

If you did consider an antibody test then it may have less credibility than you might think.

"Most antibody tests have been validated using blood samples from people hospitalized with severe disease. But these individuals, who make up only a small fraction of infected people, might have higher levels of antibodies circulating in their body than have people with mild or no symptoms.

The researchers say more detailed studies are needed to assess how well antibody tests detect previous infection in people who had mild disease."

"Key antibodies that neutralize the effects of the new coronavirus fall to low levels within months of SARS-CoV-2 infection, according to the most comprehensive study yet." https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w
 
Old 07-28-2020, 09:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
It is claim one of the author of this paper. I think that inserts mentioned in paper were created in laboratory not trough natural mutation.
As far as I can tell, they are talking about taking existing strains of covid-19, and modifying them for study.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 03:51 AM   #55
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Again about a paper: inserts are part of SARS covid-2 which make it different from natural SARS covid virus in bats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
As far as I can tell, they are talking about taking existing strains of covid-19, and modifying them for study.
Just read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_...te_of_Virology. In article is stated that SARS covid already has escaped from lab in China in Beijing. You will also find there that scientist from Wuhan were successful to engeener hybrid virus able to infect human cell. Also it states in wiki that China is planning to build more such laboratories like Wuhan.

Last edited by igadoter; 07-29-2020 at 09:05 AM.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 07:59 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
Again about a paper: inserts are part of SARS covid-2 which make it different from natural SARS covid virus in bats.
I don't think the word "inserts" implies that a human inserted those parts. But if there is someone with some biology background willing to decode the jargon for us, I'm ready to be corrected.

Quote:
Just read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_...te_of_Virology. In article is stated that SARS covid already has escaped from lab in China in Beijing.
SARS, not covid-19. I think that refers to this incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...eak#April_2004, which happened long after the initial outbreak, by the way.

Quote:
You will also find there that scientist from Wuhan were successful to engeener hybrid virus able to infect human cell.
Yes, it does say that. But this only means that it's possible covid-19 escaped from the lab. I don't think anyone disputes that. The only question is about how likely it is.

Quote:
Also it stated in wiki that China is planning to build more such laboratories like Wuhan.
I don't see it on that page, but I have seen this elsewhere.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 09:04 AM   #57
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But this only means that it's possible covid-19 escaped from the lab. I don't think anyone disputes that. The only question is about how likely it is.
Matter of safety of such lab is primary level of training of staff. Here is some information https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/ For example during visit in Wuhan it was found that lab has serious shortage of apprioprately trained technicians.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 03:17 PM   #58
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Wouldn't the "smoking gun" evidence that Covid19 escaped from Wuhan be a higher percentage of ill and dead surrounding Wuhan.. considering it wasn't known until later how important social distancing would be with such a highly infectious virus? AFAIK Wuhan is not exactly an example of "Ground Zero".

Editorial Note: BTW though I dislike and tend to avoid such blinding polarization created by political comment, it may be worthy of note that US President is not trained in politics, diplomacy, Law, etc but he is an experienced businessman. Perhaps he sees China as an economic threat to US Business and Economy which might explain a tendency to "sidle up to Russia" and to ummm.. lets say be less than cordial (and factual) about China.

Last edited by enorbet; 07-29-2020 at 03:21 PM.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 08:48 PM   #59
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Supposedly there are two major strains. One in Europe and Americas that are reported to be 10 times more dangerous.

China did have sars. It was right of them to study Sars I think. However as a country/nation/group I don't have confidence in their technology or society. My mother jokes that this was the longest anything from China has lasted. If the lab safety is as good as any other product from China then I'd believe it escaped.

Last edited by jefro; 07-29-2020 at 08:50 PM.
 
Old 07-29-2020, 09:43 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Wouldn't the "smoking gun" evidence that Covid19 escaped from Wuhan be a higher percentage of ill and dead surrounding Wuhan.. considering it wasn't known until later how important social distancing would be with such a highly infectious virus? AFAIK Wuhan is not exactly an example of "Ground Zero".
I'm not sure how that makes sense. Are you trying to suggest the virus didn't originate in Wuhan (the city) at all? Where is an example of "Ground Zero" then?

There's also the question of whether China's numbers can be considered credible, especially when they do stuff like kick out foreign journalists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
I don't have confidence in their technology or society. My mother jokes that this was the longest anything from China has lasted. If the lab safety is as good as any other product from China then I'd believe it escaped.
Yeah, it really looks like a lot of the lab escape theories really stem from China's bad quality "branding". This is more a statement about your feelings than any actual fact on the ground though.
 
  


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