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Old 07-09-2020, 02:44 PM   #31
jefro
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A rancher I knew was letting someone trap "hogs" or feral pigs on his land. The guy was selling the meat to France till some swine disease forced France to stop importing it.

There is no difference between the types of diseases a wild pig or domesticated pig might get.

Did I tell you about what the rancher saw? He said a momma pig had 12 piglets and 13 survived. The wild hogs have managed a mini evolution in the last few years all over the earth it seems. Their ability to survive has increased by their actions. You can't even use dogs to chase them down anymore.

"Coronaviruses are a large group of viruses that cause diseases in animals and humans. They often circulate among camels, cats, and bats, and can sometimes evolve and infect people."
https://www.nfid.org/infectious-diseases/coronaviruses/

Last edited by jefro; 07-09-2020 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old 07-10-2020, 07:35 AM   #32
enorbet
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Of course there is little or no difference between the types of diseases a wild pig or a domesticated pig" can be infected by. The difference is in the increased and wider opportunity of those running wild.
 
Old 07-10-2020, 03:12 PM   #33
jefro
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The other side of the coin is that a lot of production pork (domestic animals) is or is at one time in very close proximity to others and that is a more likely way to get cooties.

Some producers tend to over "dose" their herd. I used to work for a rancher who raised cattle and race horses. They didn't eat the horses.
 
Old 07-14-2020, 09:26 AM   #34
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I trust China as far as I can throw a full-size lead piano. Lab escape wouldn't surprise me tbh.
 
Old 07-14-2020, 09:49 AM   #35
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Of course a lab escape would be possible. The point is that this particular coronavirus doesn't show any of the mutations that a lab-grown virus would be expected to have.
 
Old 07-14-2020, 08:54 PM   #36
jefro
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10 people tested positive at work. Dang.....

hazel, do they really say crikey in England? I watch Top Gear and I assume it's a joke.

Maybe I am not explaining my thoughts well.
My thinking is that there are two ways to create things.
Think of a flower.
One is to gene splice and two is to selectively grow from highly selected groupings. After all the tame Russian foxes took 50 years to manipulate in the most rugged and primitive settings. I'd think that one of the most advanced lab that specialized in exactly coronavirus would have a leg up on that. They have been at it for 20 years.

It is clear that there are a few strains running loose in the world so with most virus they do mutate and can seemingly do that in a matter of weeks or less.

"if she tried to tell her story in China, she "will be disappeared and killed." Hong Kong scientist Dr. Li-Meng Yan

No way! China would do that??

Last edited by jefro; 07-14-2020 at 09:12 PM.
 
Old 07-15-2020, 03:58 AM   #37
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
hazel, do they really say crikey in England? I watch Top Gear and I assume it's a joke.
It is now. But when I was growing up, the word was quite widely used among schoolboys. A generation earlier it was public school slang and therefore common among army officers and in the airforce.
Quote:
"if she tried to tell her story in China, she "will be disappeared and killed." Hong Kong scientist Dr. Li-Meng Yan

No way! China would do that??
We know that the Chinese have lied about many aspects of covid-19. In fact they tried in the beginning to suppress the whole thing, and the doctor who blew the whistle nearly got sent to prison for spreading alarm and despondency. He was saved by a public internet campaign, but ironically he then caught covid and died. I don't like having to agree with Donald Trump about anything, but he was right when he said that the WHO were much too ready to accept China's word about a whole lot of things. That doesn't mean they created the virus though.

To change the subject slightly, I think the reason our gavernment changed its mind about Huawei was that the Hong Kong Security Bill finally proved to them that promises made by China are not worth the paper they are written on. They promised that the Chinese government would play no part in anything that Huawei did. They promised that Hong Kong would be allowed to preserve its democracy after the handover. Go figure!

Last edited by hazel; 07-15-2020 at 04:00 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2020, 11:12 AM   #38
DavidMcCann
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Why should China have to promise anything to the UK about a colony we shouldn't have had anyway? I'm not saying that China is perfect, but I'd trust them to act in their own rational interest, not from the sort of irrationality we see in the USA. Incidentally, to get back to Covid, this article shows that things haven't changed much there:
US reaction to 1918 Influenza
 
Old 07-15-2020, 11:24 AM   #39
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Why should China have to promise anything to the UK about a colony we shouldn't have had anyway?
Simply because you have to make promises if you want to make international treaties. No country will waste ink on a treaty unless they get some kind of promise in return. It's exactly the same as when I walk into a shop and buy something. The shopkeeper expects money in return. He won't give me anything for free. And if I pay with a forged banknote, he's entitled to sic the police on me.

China makes treaties but the promises they contain are worth about as much as the "I promise to pay the bearer on demand..." inscription on a fake note. So other countries have taken note and don't want to do business with China any more.

Last edited by hazel; 07-15-2020 at 11:27 AM.
 
Old 07-15-2020, 01:39 PM   #40
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Only in the preliminary stage but I am seeing some possible scientific evidence in the DNA of Covid19 that could be explained by a lab grown strain. Why such a thing would occur with Covid19 seems really odd if we assume a lab implies a military purpose, but as I said the evidence is preliminary and requires more study. There is still a LOT we don't know about Covid19. I'm trying to remain objective and flexible, wherever that leads. So far all I've heard about this "gap in the sequences" is from Bret Weinstein, a former Biology professor with considerable background in DNA and connections to other professional in that field.
 
Old 07-15-2020, 09:07 PM   #41
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
seems really odd if we assume a lab implies a military purpose
Why would anyone assume that?
 
Old 07-15-2020, 09:23 PM   #42
enorbet
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Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Why would anyone assume that?

If I understand correctly the gap in the DNA sequence has to do with the ability to jump to humans. That often does occur from natural processes of mutation but there is a pattern of sequences and one is missing in Covid19. What other reason would a lab endeavor to insure a virus could make the change to human infection?


I don't know much yet but Weinstein is a respected expert in the field. I intend to keep checking. Maybe you should as well. Initially I thought a lab sample escape was unlikely. I still think natural mutation is more likely and will until more new evidence is in. I don't think anyone knows enough yet about Covid19 to be certain about very much. I do wonder why NIH just rescinded a grant for more study though. All we can do is keep checking updates, right?
 
Old 07-15-2020, 09:46 PM   #43
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I kind of assume that a lab is mostly full of nice folks working on some scientific mystery. Would have to also assume that scientists don't pay the bills and their administration has little to do with being a nice scientist. Someone could at some point notice some study and think, dang, what if....

Pretty sure we will never know the entire story.

Last edited by jefro; 07-15-2020 at 09:48 PM.
 
Old 07-18-2020, 03:12 PM   #44
enorbet
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As of mid July further testing concluded with extreme confidence (over 98.5%) that Covid19 occurred naturally and was not a lab leak. This was published in July's Nature - Medicine Journal.
 
Old 07-27-2020, 05:22 PM   #45
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The structure of genetic code shows that covid-2 was engeenered. For mutation first we need to find species where mutation took place. So far no one found such species. This all about mutation of genetic code of original virus carried by bats. The second thing at least we know for sure that Wuhan laboratory was working with bat viruses like SARS covid-2. The research was supported by USA, France, Australia. Important thing is that we dont' know the reason of research of SARS covid. Every scientific project has goals to reach.
 
  


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