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Old 09-23-2020, 07:55 PM   #16
michaelk
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Equally well as in good or bad?
Total deaths in Scandinavian countries.

Sweden 5876
Denmark 643
Finland 343
Norway 267

All the world except for Trump uses the deaths per capita rate to compare countries. The USA is 10th and Sweden is 12th. Granted US is a big country but has 20% of the total deaths worldwide.

Trump's views closing down traffic from China as the one thing he did to save the US. Hindsight is 20/20 but there were 1000's of people that traveled from Asia between the time it was first detected in late December to February and 1000's more that traveled from Europe from the same time to late March. Much of the "damage" due to how infectious COVID is, was already done IMHO. Miscommunication between the WHO, CDC, the administration not using the pandemic playbook and Trump's down playing ( or up playing) probably cost a few US lives as compared to some of the other countries that have done fairly well.
 
Old 09-23-2020, 09:31 PM   #17
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No, look at the current death rate in Sweden. They did fail the most at risk at the beginning. After that initial fumble they have lived their lives rather normally and yet the last few months the issue is almost non-existent to them.

Almost every other country still has deaths climbing.

I have no idea why people think Trump is in charge of everyone. The US military took some of the very first cases to San Antonio to study it.

I personally don't believe this to be fully "natural." I can't understand why more work isn't being done to find out why the below 30 year old group seems so immune to this. They are not normally immune to other virus's. The below 5 year old tend to suffer typical virus's. The below 5 year olds are suspected of getting covid and yet not even showing on tests.

It does point to choosing to living healthy and everyone ought to be onboard with that.

Why the people where I work at seem to shrug it off I can't say. About 50 had it with only one guy with severe symptoms and long lasting damage. He was the most healthy guy to look at. Worked out all the time. 30 years old ex-Marine. Type A.
 
Old 09-23-2020, 09:56 PM   #18
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
I personally don't believe this to be fully "natural."

There was a recent paper on this, but the science is a bit over my head as I don't have a background in virology.
 
Old 09-23-2020, 10:09 PM   #19
michaelk
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All of Scandinavian has a similar 7 day moving average from what I can tell. I dont know how each country is in their reopening plan. Has Sweden obtained herd immunity?

It looks like that paper has not been peer reviewed either. Origins may never be determined

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/09/15...hows-why-15029

Last edited by michaelk; 09-23-2020 at 10:14 PM.
 
Old 09-23-2020, 10:32 PM   #20
orbea
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I wouldn't put too much weight in peer review, scientific journals are often financially motivated institutions that require steep paywalls and subject to political bias before any papers are peer reviewed and published. Not to mention there are many unrelated peer reviewed articles which have since been shown to be inaccurate, wrong or otherwise lacking. At times intentionally so...

I understand enough of the paper I linked to find your link skeptical in how that is doesn't really address any of the raised points. That said a poorly constructed opinion piece doesn't validate the article any more than it discredits it.
 
Old 09-24-2020, 08:30 AM   #21
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
Has Sweden obtained herd immunity?
There was some mention of this in another LQ thread that I'm unable to find right now. Some people seem to think the cases dropped over the summer just because of Sweden's custom of taking holidays at that time, and others claimed the drop was due to herd immunity. The current data shows a small rise in cases since the start of September, but there was similar sized rise and fall over August. I think we'll have to wait another month or so to see whether it keeps going up over October to decide which of the summer holiday or herd immunity theories fits better.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...ickerSort=desc
 
Old 09-24-2020, 08:40 AM   #22
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Why the people where I work at seem to shrug it off I can't say. About 50 had it with only one guy with severe symptoms and long lasting damage. He was the most healthy guy to look at. Worked out all the time. 30 years old ex-Marine. Type A.
Then I bet you he had an overactive immune system. A lot of covid deaths are caused by an "immune storm" similar to what you get in sars (which is closely related). That was true for Spanish Flu as well. It's not purely a coronavirus thing.
 
Old 09-24-2020, 10:04 AM   #23
boughtonp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
No, look at the current death rate in Sweden. They did fail the most at risk at the beginning. After that initial fumble they have lived their lives rather normally and yet the last few months the issue is almost non-existent to them.

Almost every other country still has deaths climbing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
All of Scandinavian has a similar 7 day moving average from what I can tell. I dont know how each country is in their reopening plan. Has Sweden obtained herd immunity?
Sweden's death per million has only recently dropped to a low point of 0.1 - it levelled out around 0.2-0.3 at the start of August.

Norway's deaths per million has been hovering around 0.05 since the end of May - four months earlier and thousands of deaths fewer.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=earliest..latest&country=SWE~NOR~DNK~FIN&region=World&deathsMetri c=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=population_density&pickerSort=desc

According to Wikipedia, Norway fully locked down on 12th March (with a ban on non-residents entering from the following day), seemingly for just two weeks until 26th March (inclusive).

Wonder what the last 6 months would have been like if the UK had acted similarly...

 
Old 09-24-2020, 05:25 PM   #24
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
According to Wikipedia, Norway fully locked down on 12th March (with a ban on non-residents entering from the following day), seemingly for just two weeks until 26th March (inclusive).

Wonder what the last 6 months would have been like if the UK had acted similarly...
On the other hand, https://www.thelocal.no/20200522/nor...n-health-chief

Quote:
The head of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health believes Norway could have brought the coronavirus pandemic under control without a lockdown, and called for the country to avoid such far-reaching measures if hit by a second wave.

Camille Stoltenberg, the agency's Director General, told state broadcaster NRK that the agency's analysis now suggested less restrictive measures would have been sufficient.

"Our assessment now....is that we could possibly have achieved the same effects and avoided some of the unfortunate impacts by not locking down, but by instead keeping open but with infection control measures," she said.

The institute reported at the start of this month that the reproduction number had already fallen to as low as 1.1 even before the lockdown was announced on March 12.

This suggests that it would not have required heavy-handed measures such as school closures to bring it below 1 and so push the number of infected people in the country into a gradual decline.
 
Old 09-24-2020, 10:07 PM   #25
jefro
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hazel, I have read that the main killer is this over reaction to covid usually on top of other issues.
Another notion is that of viral load. Maybe this young otherwise healthy guy somehow got a huge dose?
 
Old 09-24-2020, 10:36 PM   #26
sinclac57
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It takes what it takes as long as it is safe, that's the important thing.
 
Old 09-25-2020, 04:27 AM   #27
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Another notion is that of viral load. Maybe this young otherwise healthy guy somehow got a huge dose?
The viral load theory certainly explains why health workers who get covid are more likely to die of it even if they are young. A notable case was the Chinese doctor who first warned about the pandemic and was nearly sent to jail for his pains. You may remember that there was a huge public campaign to have him exonerated and recognised as a hero, but then he caught the virus and died.

Hopefully, the death rate will be lower in this second wave because we know a lot more now about how to treat the disease. We have learned how to damp down immune storms with dexamethasone and how to use serum from recovered patients to treat old people with the reverse problem of defective immune systems. And doctors will be more selective about intubating patients because they have learned that it often causes more problems than it solves. Also, more grimly, a lot of the people likely to die of covid if they catch it have already died.

Last edited by hazel; 09-30-2020 at 10:20 AM.
 
Old 09-26-2020, 12:50 PM   #28
teckk
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Vaccine info.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/healt...fda/index.html
 
  


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