Power grid as antenna possible ?

rtmistler · 12-30-2024, 10:33 AM

You could benefit from some study on the subject of antenna theory.

While conductive materials can radiate, their efficiency can be impacted by silly little things like switches, splice caps, and other factors.

Products and systems have used household electrical wiring to convey signals like alarms, audio, low speed coms, but ultimately their reliability is either questionable or good all depending upon random for this purpose, but purposeful for house wiring, actions made by electricians.

The question is why, to what benefit? Not like a regular antenna is overly expensive, but I can guarantee you that it'll work a lot better.

The additional aspect is environment and physical law. If you're down a canyon, urban or natural, signal besides HF or AM isn't going to propagate much.

business_kid · 12-30-2024, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

So, how do "smart" electrical meters actually work? My understanding was that they "phone home" through the power lines . . .

(And the power company can "phone them," too. For example, to disconnect your service.)

The meters could probably talk to the substation. It's probably possible without extra cabling.

The only way I can see it working is for the substation to address them individually, and give each one it's time segment to report back. The data since last time could be returned. From substation to accounts. I'm sure they could also perform a 'snip' although adding that 'snip' feature would significantly add to the cost. They'd have to insert decoding intelligence and a 100 or 150A switching circuit capable of withstanding considerable overload.

sundialsvcs · 12-30-2024, 01:21 PM

I have seen some of the data that is collected by our meters. They are constantly monitoring power consumption. Also, if there is an interruption in service, they are able to determine almost immediately where the failure is. Based on exactly which meters have gone "offline." It is quite an interesting device.

And, yes, if you don't pay your bill, they send a "disconnect" command. Used to be they had to physically visit your meter, but not anymore.

business_kid · 12-31-2024, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialvcs

And, yes, if you don't pay your bill, they send a "disconnect" command. Used to be they had to physically visit your meter, but not anymore.

Here, they did it as distantly as possible. The thought of having some big guy coming out of his house very mad and looking for you forced that. Also, people would reconnect themselves. It was not unknown for folks to connect themselves without any meter!

joboy · 01-01-2025, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtmistler

You could benefit from some study on the subject of antenna theory.

While conductive materials can radiate, their efficiency can be impacted by silly little things like switches, splice caps, and other factors.

Products and systems have used household electrical wiring to convey signals like alarms, audio, low speed coms, but ultimately their reliability is either questionable or good all depending upon random for this purpose, but purposeful for house wiring, actions made by electricians.

The question is why, to what benefit? Not like a regular antenna is overly expensive, but I can guarantee you that it'll work a lot better.

The additional aspect is environment and physical law. If you're down a canyon, urban or natural, signal besides HF or AM isn't going to propagate much.

Yes I understand that as I'm a licensed ham operator, that's why I said this is a crazy idea ! I learned about the leaky cable used in tunnel that's why I got this idea.

ferrari · 01-01-2025, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joboy

Yes I understand that as I'm a licensed ham operator, that's why I said this is a crazy idea ! I learned about the leaky cable used in tunnel that's why I got this idea.

Leaky feeders (radiating cable) are a type of distributed antenna system with a controlled impedance for efficient RF propagation. Power grids do not offer the necessary characteristics to permit such controlled transmission and radiation of RF energy, and as such the signals would experience significant reflections, power losses, and interference. Not a viable idea at all.

jefro · 01-01-2025, 05:37 AM

Almost every US meter has a way to report power. Most grid have smart devices.
My power went out once before work. No big deal. When I drove to work crew was fixing device. I asked how they got there since I didn't call. They said their board lights up problems. Dispatcher told them where branch stopped reporting.

business_kid · 01-01-2025, 07:23 AM

I'm uncertain how efficient a power cable would be as a big inductor. I don't know the field at all.

Presuming it was seen as a biggish inductor, it would totally reject HF. It's notable that mains ethernet adaptors are ok in your house, but don't carry signal to next door. Most are 100Mbit, although there are some 1 GB ones. Frequencies would be 100Mhz & 1 Ghz respectively. Mobile Frequencies range from 410MHz <--> 30 GHz.