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Old 03-01-2020, 11:05 PM   #16
scasey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
For some reason, this seems analogous to me.

P. G. Wodehouse once wrote a book about a man named "Psmith," pronounced "Smith."

Mr Psmith's position was that, as it was his own darn name, he could spell and pronounce it any way he wished.

Just a stray thought.
Was his first name Phrank?
 
Old 03-02-2020, 01:22 AM   #17
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
there was an article suggesting that we all show our solidarity with the LGBT+ community by putting our "preferred pronoun" in our email signature. The idea is that, as trans and "non-binary" people need to do this, they will feel less embarrassed if everyone else does it too.
Sounds like a misguided sense of solidarity - the person who "suggests" isn't LGBTQW@£$5EUY themselves.

That isn't a new thing at all. Have seen it with all sorts of minorities.

In fact, the minorities thus targeted often joke about it.
 
Old 03-02-2020, 07:32 AM   #18
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I was brought up to afford everyone a basic level of respect and politeness "Please", "thank you", "Sir/Ma'am" etc. until and unless they showed they didn't actually deserve it. Expecting me or anyone to bend over backwards to avoid offending them or placate their sensibilities, strongly suggests that point has been reached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Sounds like a misguided sense of solidarity - the person who "suggests" isn't LGBTQW@£$5EUY themselves.

That isn't a new thing at all. Have seen it with all sorts of minorities.

In fact, the minorities thus targeted often joke about it.
It's an almost perverse type of virtue signaling. It boils down to nothing more than "look at how loving/open minded/tolerant/XYZ I am. gibs head pats pl0x."
 
Old 03-03-2020, 07:03 AM   #19
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDeckard View Post
It's an almost perverse type of virtue signaling. It boils down to nothing more than "look at how loving/open minded/tolerant/XYZ I am. gibs head pats pl0x."
Is there a non-perverse type of virtue signaling? I don't think I've ever heard that term used as a compliment...
 
Old 03-03-2020, 10:21 AM   #20
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My employer circulates a questionnaire every now and then. The last big one had a massively expanded section for gender/gender identity alongside the usual broad categories for age/race/religion. I have no objection to a detailed questionnaire, but the minute detail in only one section looked like either a political statement or a satire of one.

Prospect is well-represented on this site.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 02:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastychomper View Post
My employer circulates a questionnaire every now and then. The last big one had a massively expanded section for gender/gender identity...
As a matter of interest, was "none of your business" one of the choices?
 
Old 03-03-2020, 03:47 PM   #22
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How perverse and discriminatory. I'm utterly sickened by *them* deigning to politely suggest that it would be more inviting if you took the effort to write six or seven extra characters in your email signature.; msacras

The sheer extent to which people will go to be offended when there are actual issues in the world to be concerned about...
 
Old 03-03-2020, 03:49 PM   #23
andigena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
As a matter of interest, was "none of your business" one of the choices?
"Prefer not to say" is typically an option on surveys asking about demographics, so I'd guess as much.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 04:22 PM   #24
ChuangTzu
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hazel, its called "tyranny of the minority" and it is very dangerous (equal to Tyranny of the Majority or even more so). Whether you look at it as the 1% at the top or the bottom 1% etc... Basically take any extreme minority then elevate it to rule over and dominate the majority and make them (majority) live according to the dictates (ex: lifestyle choices) of the minority.

US President George Washington warned about this in his farewell address:
Quote:
“The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.”
This should be confronted and prevented in all "free societies" that value liberty and freedom etc... People should have the right to live, act, work etc... as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others to do the same. But no-one's choices should be forced on others, ie: you should not be forced to live as your neighbor chooses to live.

ref: https://www.mountvernon.org/library/...rewell-address
Professor Jordan Peterson His Stance On Gender Pronouns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p93NCyV5Hws
Heated debate on gender pronouns and free speech in Toronto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiijS_9hPkM
 
Old 03-03-2020, 04:47 PM   #25
andigena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
hazel, its called "tyranny of the minority" and it is very dangerous (equal to Tyranny of the Majority or even more so). Whether you look at it as the 1% at the top or the bottom 1% etc... Basically take any extreme minority then elevate it to rule over and dominate the majority and make them (majority) live according to the dictates (ex: lifestyle choices) of the minority.

US President George Washington warned about this in his farewell address:


This should be confronted and prevented in all "free societies" that value liberty and freedom etc... People should have the right to live, act, work etc... as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others to do the same. But no-one's choices should be forced on others, ie: you should not be forced to live as your neighbor chooses to live.

ref: https://www.mountvernon.org/library/...rewell-address
Professor Jordan Peterson His Stance On Gender Pronouns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p93NCyV5Hws
Heated debate on gender pronouns and free speech in Toronto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiijS_9hPkM
I wasn't aware Hazel was being forced to take cross-sex hormones and live as a different gender, that's fascinating.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 04:52 PM   #26
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andigena View Post
I wasn't aware Hazel was being forced to take cross-sex hormones and live as a different gender, that's fascinating.
You clearly suffer from TLDR. Review the references and try not to put words into other peoples keyboards.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 04:55 PM   #27
andigena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
You clearly suffer from TLDR. Review the references and try not to put words into other peoples keyboards.
I'm far more familiar with Jordan Peterson's pseudointellectual gender policing than I want to be at this point, but I appreciate your willingness to be immediately condescending.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 05:06 PM   #28
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andigena View Post
I'm far more familiar with Jordan Peterson's pseudointellectual gender policing than I want to be at this point, but I appreciate your willingness to be immediately condescending.
Gender policing? His stance is the exact opposite of that and he is against gender policing and the legislation of gender speech.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 05:21 PM   #29
andigena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Gender policing? His stance is the exact opposite of that and he is against gender policing and the legislation of gender speech.
Yeah, he's not in favor of pronoun policing. That's an entirely different matter from policing the gender identities of students. But this is off-topic.

Getting back to the main idea, the point here is that nobody is, as you imply, forcing Hazel to follow the lifestyle of transgender individuals by suggesting the idea of signing emails with a pronoun declaration. Explicitly stating gender pronouns is not necessary or even done by many transgender people, and their "lifestyle" constitutes significantly more than the mere declaration of pronouns. This suggestion, however misguided it may be, is made as an attempt to increase the comfort level of people who actually have to declare their pronouns (transgender and more frequently nonbinary people) and not as a way to "police" language or force people to not be themselves transphobic.

The people here are, by and large, sensationalizing it to an absurd degree, and my armchair psychoanalysis says that's because they're afraid of their embedded ideas about how genders work being challenged. Regardless of whether that's true, I'd invite you to actually consider the idea editorialized by the OP as "political correctness gone mad" and think about what benefits it would have versus what costs it would actually present to members of the union, and then stop blowing it out of proportion once you realize that this is actually a total nothingburger of an issue.
 
Old 03-03-2020, 05:29 PM   #30
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andigena View Post
Yeah, he's not in favor of pronoun policing. That's an entirely different matter from policing the gender identities of students. But this is off-topic.

Getting back to the main idea, the point here is that nobody is, as you imply, forcing Hazel to follow the lifestyle of transgender individuals by suggesting the idea of signing emails with a pronoun declaration. Explicitly stating gender pronouns is not necessary or even done by many transgender people, and their "lifestyle" constitutes significantly more than the mere declaration of pronouns. This suggestion, however misguided it may be, is made as an attempt to increase the comfort level of people who actually have to declare their pronouns (transgender and more frequently nonbinary people) and not as a way to "police" language or force people to not be themselves transphobic.

The people here are, by and large, sensationalizing it to an absurd degree, and my armchair psychoanalysis says that's because they're afraid of their embedded ideas about how genders work being challenged. Regardless of whether that's true, I'd invite you to actually consider the idea editorialized by the OP as "political correctness gone mad" and think about what benefits it would have versus what costs it would actually present to members of the union, and then stop blowing it out of proportion once you realize that this is actually a total nothingburger of an issue.
The over-reaction is on the part of those forcing new genders/gender identities and new names for those gender identities. If it was not so dangerous it would be comical...perhaps its comically dangerous (George Carlin skit?)? It is Tyranny of the Minority and it's that simple, it has taken different shapes over the centuries since its deployment and this is its current phase/shape. It will morph into another once this phase passes and that is the reason people (see gender neutral) always need to be vigilant.

Also, legislating speech (in this case gender pronouns) is tantamount to legislating thought as the two go hand in hand, thus it's a much larger issue then the gender pronoun crowd want you to realize. Perhaps, we should go the Aussie way and just call everyone Mate. But then the lawsuits would roll in because someone would claim sexual harassment since reproduction is also called mating and calling them mate was implying that you wanted to have sex with him/her/they/ze....

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 03-03-2020 at 05:34 PM.
 
  


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