People are being rendered helpless by their phones: example
 

Today I was accosted by a young lady who was clearly lost. She was looking for Kenton railway station with a phone in her hand showing a Google map. I told her to go straight up the road we were standing at the head of: up the hill and down again and she would come to Kenton Road; the station was on the other side, just a little bit to the left.

She was unhappy about that. It was the long way round, she said. Google suggested a short cut through an alleyway somewhere in the Kenton recreation ground. I told her there was no such alleyway that I knew of and I've been living here since 1971! But she wouldn't believe me. She said she didn't want to go the long way round if her phone said there was a short cut.

After some discussion, I said to her: "Look: you can see the top of the hill from here. You can see how close it is. Down the other side is the same distance. And then you'll be on Kenton Road. You could have walked it while we've been talking here."

So she finally went that way. Why are people so fixated on Google maps and satnav?

The cost of convenience is weakness. Use a crutch long enough and one can't walk without one. Use a crutch when we begin walking and never learn how, just like a tiger born and raised in captivity has very slim odds of survival if released into the wild. Nature/Nurture.

That's theory. When you see it in practice, it's frightening. What kind of a future awaits these technology-crippled young people?

The truly sad part, IMO, is that they trust/follow their phones instead of wise little old ladies :)

Hmmm, while I am convinced that hazel is indeed wise, I wouldn't dare to suggest that she might be either little or old!

Just going by her sig,..🙃

Well being a biker. I use my phone a lot.

But I take google maps directions with a grain of salt.
From past experience hundreds of miles from home.

I've been down some pretty hill billy roads going no where < dead ends > .
Listening to Google Maps.

My neighbors were giving me a ride to pick up my truck from service today. There are lots of ways to get to the service station, as this is an urban area. Neighbors knew where the destination was.

As we neared one stop light, husband said, "Turn right here." (Wife was driving.) I said, "Just go up to the next light and turn right; it's a straight shot." Husband said, "Well, that's where the computer says to turn."

Had wife followed husband's directions, it would have added an extra zig-zag and about a quarter mile to the trip. (Since it was a short trip, it wouldn't have made much difference, but in context it made the drive about 16% longer.)

A web search for "gps leads driver into wilderness" turns up lots of interesting stuff.

Convenience is one thing. Total abdication of good sense is something entirely other.

I have a stand-alone gps - garmin, had it for years. I refuse to tell google where I am all the damn time.

On occasion when we are travelling, I change the mode of the gps so it doesn't stick to the highways - found some interesting little towns we would never have seen. And the country roads are so much more interesting. Except for the bloody roos, but that's another story ...

My car satnav tried to get me into a river once - fortunately I noticed that the road came to a stop, there was a river just past the end of the road and there was no bridge over the river...

It's not just us here thinking about overreliance on satnav/phone apps.

It's distressing that some persons will believe their gadgets more than they will believe their lyin' eyes.

That's an especially fascinating article for me because it taps into and explains a difference I had noticed years ago between me and my mother. My mother had a map in her head. My father often joked that you could put her in the middle of Hampstead Heath, spin her around and then ask, "Which way is home?" and she would point unerringly in the right direction.

I have never been able to do that. But in a strange city, I can find my way around by learning a sequence of landmarks and turns that will always get me to my goal. So when we were on holiday, the first days in a new town, I would be the guide. But after that, my mother would take over. "Why don't we go down that way?" she would say. "It's much quicker." She was never wrong.

Not surprisingly, I have always had difficulties with maps. My father eventually taught me to manage street maps by standing on a corner between two known roads and turning the map until the representations of those roads pointed in the right directions. Then I would know in which direction to go to reach my target. Which is what a satnav does more or less.

Ha, ha, not for me these techno marvels, I've seen people come unstuck, & my mates go the wrong way, when out cycling, only to meet up later, after they had put on an extra 10 miles or so. :)

Map & compass all the way for me.

There were a number of viral stories like this a decade back:

Woman Drives for 900 Miles Instead of 90 Thanks to GPS Error

My comment: I've found that the bike routes that I design for myself, based the city's bike lane map, tend to be safer than the ones Google design for me.

i have been in similar situations myself, i.e. i was the one asking for directions after i checked it out on OSMAnd, and phone in hand i said: "yes, but OSMAnd tells me there's a shorter route."
to my defense i will say that i was right in the end, there WAS a shorter route.
i was not "helpless".
it is surprising how many (local) people simply stay on the main roads and never wonder if there's a better (faster, shorter, more beautiful) route for their everyday journeys.

that said, i was able to find my way around before GPS, and i still have a sense of direction; i am one of those people who have a "map in their head".

and i've known of people getting hopelessly lost and having NO sense of direction even before GPS in smartphones became ubiquitous.

that said, again, it is definitely true that there's a new helplessness, and smartphones definitely play a role in that.
like, searching your online maps for a way to the central railway station, when you could actually see it in the distance if you raised your head.

You either have a sense of direction or not, with none turn in the wrong direction you are lost.
Even though it was only a short way to the hotel in London my wife turned the wrong way and ended walking 5 miles.
I may not have a map in my head but I do have a sense of direction so this saves me a lot of time nearly always.
Dennis

I can tell you about 2 situations where Google maps isn't accurate.

My sister lives next to a lake. A relative of hers, who had never been to her house before, used Google for direction. It's a 15 minute drive from the friends house to my sisters, but Google gave a shortcut. It took her on a 30 minutes drive to the other side of the lake, then another 40 minutes to get to my sisters from there.

I go to a small church in a small town. There's a mini storage place at one end of the town. The church I go to is at the other end of town. I was doing some outside work there last summer, and 3 times over a 2 week period, someone stopped and asked me where the mini storage was. Google maps brought them to the area of my church. After the 2nd one, I checked, and sure enough, Google didn't have the location right. When the 3rd person stopped, before they spoke, I asked if they were looking for the storage. They were surprised until I told them they were the 3rd one and Google maps had the wrong spot. That night, I gave Google the correction. I've never been asked that again.

GPS and maps are nice, but don't depend on them.

True
I went for a long country drive back in the 80's. Eventually got to where I wasn't sure how to get back. Part of the fun. I knew I was north of hwy 2 and east of hwy 16, so it was just a matter of driving sw and eventually I would know where I am. Those were the days. :) Did that a few times. Once I almost ran out of gas though. There was no GPS back then either.

People with phones in general are not...

you know who's not smart in general, we.

A shortcut is the longest distance between two points.

It occurred to me yesterday that she might have been referring to the alleyway between Carlton Avenue and Becmead Avenue, both of which run into Kenton Road. So I paced it out today with the dog.

If she had gone down Carlton Avenue rather than Elmwood Avenue, she would have come out on the other side of the railway station. In terms of distance, there's not much in it; the station is more or less in the middle. But as we were standing at the head of Elmwood Avenue, that was the shortest way.

If she had gone down Carlton Avenue and then through the alley into Becmead Avenue and followed that down to Kenton Road, she would have come out at quite a distance from the station. So I still think Google had it wrong.

No it's not.

My girlfriend has no bump of direction whatsoever. Once she is used to a reasonable way to get from point A to point B, that's what she uses.

Me, I explore. She likes to stick to main streets and I like to cut through the neighborhoods to avoid the stop lights, the stress, and the idiots, even though it might take a few stress-free moments more.

And I have folder full of road atlases in my vehicle for two reasons.

One is that I like maps. I've always like maps. When I was a kid, I used to collect gas company road maps (remember when gas stations gave away road maps? My favorites were the ARCO maps, because I liked the color scheme).

Two is that a nice big paper map gives you a detailed perspective you cannot get on a computer screen, even with a full-sized monitor.

As an aside, I had to call AAA (the American Automobile Association) for a dead battery a couple of years ago. The AAA guy also liked paper maps. He had trouble finding our place because our street just happened to fall in the crease in the middle of the two pages of that particular map.

well it never ceases to amaze me.
why not try to get a little quality into your life that might even be quicker than sticking to the main roads, on those same routes you take 5 days a week, for years.
granted, i did not refer to driving. walking mostly. i see how the situation is different if you do everything with a car.

i assume you mean "by car".

yes, don't underestimate technical details like this.
neither method (computer vs. paper) is perfect.

Yes, I was referring to driving.

The "public transportation system" here is a joke, and a bad one.

:) No technology is perfect.

I rely on my own computer - being my brain. I don't easily get lost. I'll use landmarks before I rely on Google/satnav/whatever.

Regardless of your intent, it seems to me that you gave the correct advice when advising someone, particularly a young woman, not to take a shortcut through an alleyway... the big difference between google maps and common sense I suppose.

A buddy of mine said Google maps sent them to the edge of a cliff. Don't trust most man-made things because everything has a flaw. I have not seen any perfection while on earth. Proceed with caution!!!!

You refer to a specific map type and name just above this... catch my point?

Anyone use OpenStreetMaps?

Google Maps only warns you upon installing it, I believe but Garmin on the other hand warns you each time you fire up the device.

Common sense is not really a thing; just ask a common kindergartener, Jehovah's Witness or any other "group..." :D

Several times I've had Google Maps tell me to make a U-turn and the sign says no U-turns. Because I'm not an idiot, I obey the sign while ranting at Google.

I use Google Maps for an unfamiliar journey or if I think there might be traffic on my usual route. It seems pretty good at finding alternative routes that bypass the traffic jams. I have noticed though that Google is sometimes unwilling to route down minor roads and will instead pick a longer route that sticks to main ones. Of course I'll ignore Google when I feel like it or if it's obviously wrong.

A family member, using their Audi's sat-nav, once managed to drive three times through the same interchange because the exit was closed and the satnav was telling them to turn round at the next junction and try again instead of rerouting. Once I can understand, twice maybe, but surely after that most people would just exit anywhere, pull over, and figure out a different route? I'd even told them before they left that X interchange was closed and they'd have to exit at the one before, but they obviously forgot. D'oh!

Here's another example: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ks/2100458002/

Words fail me.

I often use software maps by setting the destination but never saying start, the GPS then shows my destination and me moving but no set route or routes to follow. Luckily train tracks are clearly marked on maps

L :doh: L

i remember a longer journey with a suit wearing manager type (i was hitchhiking, and since he took me, no disrespect here) - our many hundred km trip took us through a large city in an otherwise rural area. this means that there was no alternative large roads around that city. but it was hopelessly congested, even the ring of motorways around it. googlemaps kept suggesting new alternative routes and the guy kept taking them. we were just getting slower and slower, getting on ever smaller and more congested roads.
i've never seen a suit swearing like this for real. not loosing time in a traffic jam was a life-or-death matter for him.

I found this quite an interesting thread, so I'm going to weigh in with my tuppence on the OP.

I think the real issue is with the lady's use of the word 'alleyway'. Of course Google doesn't tell the user that the route is specifically through an alleyway, only that there is some passage through. If you both were at the head of Elmwood Ave, I think she was referring to the railway bridge that then leads to the head of Carlton Avenue. This is just from looking at a combination of Google Maps and streetview. From what I can see you were ultimately right, hazel, if she took a short walk up Elmwood, she would be right at the station, but she seems to have wanted to go the other way via Carlton.

In this instance I don't think Google was wrong. This is a human issue with terminology. She assumed the railway bridge was an alleyway and this lead to the confusion. Either way, she should have just listened to you.

For what it's worth, she was coming from the direction of the bridge when she accosted me. You could still be right of course. Perhaps a bridge didn't correspond to what she expected to see, so she doubled back to ask for advice from what was clearly a local resident taking her dog for a walk. But having asked, it was pretty daft not to follow the answer she was given.

When I was a child, I used to have a lot of dreams set in a kind of fictionalised version of north-west London. The geography of this dream world was fairly constant. There were a lot of alleyways connecting places that were not connected in the real world. For example, you could go into John Barnes Store on Finchley Road and come out the back into Kilburn. And there was one place from which, if you could only find it, you could get directly to any other place. Maybe some people see Google as a back door to a similar world of dreams.

^ when I was a child we visited Venice, the city of alleyways (and no cars).
my parents sat in a cafe, and me and my brother would play this game:

• walk on, and turn right at every crossing (i.e. not just a bend in the road, a real crossing of ways), then left at the next.
• do this for as long as you dare
• walk back the exact oppposite way, so if you stopped with left, you start with right.

i think we saved ourselves and our parents some trouble by not getting lost, but it was pretty close a few times.
it was very daring.

my point? dunno.
anyhow, this was long before online maps.
and it illustrates my love for finding ways in inhabited areas.

That reminds me of my long walk on Millennium Night. After the fireworks were over, I walked back to the tube station I had come out of, only to find a queue that looked a mile long. I knew that if I waited, I'd still be there by morning. So I asked a passing policewoman, "If I go that way and keep on walking, where would I get to?". She said probably Ealing! So I knew the way I was pointing was West. I needed to go north, so I turned 90 degrees clockwise and started walking. Each time I came to the end of the road, I turned either left or right, crossed the road, and then took the next turning I saw going north.

It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life. The streets were as crowded as daytime rush hour, so I felt perfectly safe. Everyone was walking north like me in small family groups. Eventually I came out into Oxford Street, near Marble Arch, and picked up the underground there. That's the only time I navigated without a map and didn't get lost!

I was on the South Bank. It took us three hours just to cross the river.

another thing i often noticed (in different countries, too):

i ask: "is this the right direction to get to X?"
answer: "yes, but it is very far away. maybe you should use public transport."

invariably the distance is less than 1km, which i am happy to walk even with a heavy backpack.

conclusion: people aren't walking anymore, at least not as a means to get from A to B.

Most people drive or take public transport. My old place of work was ten mins walk [according to Google maps] from the railway station. It's a journey I made on foot every day for years. Everybody else took the bus.

But then, we are dealing with a generation who will take a lift up one floor. I don't drive, so I walk everywhere or take the Tube, and I think it has done me the world of good health-wise.

i'm getting increasingly off topic, but this reminds me:
my house's staircase (it's a 3-storey block of flats, no lift) has windows in it, and a bright streetlamp right in front, so it's never completely dark.
i sometimes don't see the need to use the light, esp. in the early evening when there's a little daylight left and said streetlamp is already on.
this seems to weird people out completely. i have had this experience in other situations also. what's wrong with relying on one's night vision?
everyone else seems to automatically just use the light switch, sometimes even during broad daylight. try to save a little energy!

I had almost the opposite experience a few years later. I was at a closed tube station (Paddington I think) and wanted to be at King's Cross so I headed NE and checked the tube map every time I passed a station, which worked well enough. In my case it seemed like the city was asleep - it was about 2AM, and apart from one open newsagent I was alone until I reached King's X. At the time I was used to central Bristol, which it seemed never slept, and was pleasantly surprised that wasn't the case for part of London.

Strange but true. I remember reading in school that people once thought the horseless carriage would cause people to lose the use of their legs, and it seemed to me that they were spot on. Years later I was surprised how right I was - even in summer my group of friends, who were mostly more athletic than me, would try quite hard to get a lift to church rather than walk one mile across town. :confused:

oh, my pet peeve #31:
people who take the car to the gym!

In one of Plato's dialogues, a man is talking to an Egyptian priest who tells him that writing has been the ruin of memory. The Egyptians were wise and used a complex hieroglyphic script that only priests could understand and that was only used for special purposes such as tomb inscriptions, but the Greek alphabetic script allowed anyone to write things down. As a result, people had forgotten how to memorise what they needed to know.

^ and still humanity hasn't died out from all these commodities.
thanks for putting things into perspective.