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Old 04-10-2018, 09:56 AM   #46
sundialsvcs
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The "official story" makes me angry, since it is so obviously false and yet so obviously produced by government. I see this as a crime of premeditated mass-murder and massive health damage to the people of New York who survived or who were just in the surrounding area. For officials to do anything but "leave no stone unturned" is inexcusable. For them to apparently conspire, to prevent the truth from being told and to vilify the people who are (still) seeking the truth, is a crime in itself.

We all saw red (not gray) hot molten metal pouring out, many floors below the impact zone, before both of the tallest buildings in the world collapsed into their own footprint, falling straight down in six seconds. Then, a third building dropped to the ground in what was unarguably a controlled demolition that was apparently anticipated. Yet, engineers who objectively ponder these issues are ridiculed as "conspiracy theorists." No, they are subject-matter experts and criminal investigators with plenty of crime to investigate.

When you consider that multiple airliners were hijacked in a diversion, the scope and magnitude of the operation and the amount of planning that had to have gone into it gives entirely new meaning to the word, "terrifying." And yet, the US Government continues to block investigation. It was perfectly content to blame the whole thing on the country with which it latest wanted to go to war, and subsequently did. But the entire infrastructure of the City of New York was completely compromised, and compromised for a very long period of time, by parties still unknown and apparently un-sought.

"There is no statute of limitations on the crime of Murder in the First Degree." Thousands of souls cry for justice – not lies.

The Official Story is "a lie we don't believe anymore."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 04-10-2018 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 04-10-2018, 11:05 AM   #47
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Setting aside whether towers were demolished or fell for the moment...

Those in any doubt as to whether the US has considered "false flag" operations in the past, as a pretext to military action, should consider the the now declassified Northwoods and Mongoose documents
 
Old 04-10-2018, 03:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
The "official story" makes me angry, since it is so obviously false and yet so obviously produced by government. I see this as a crime of premeditated mass-murder and massive health damage to the people of New York who survived or who were just in the surrounding area. For officials to do anything but "leave no stone unturned" is inexcusable. For them to apparently conspire, to prevent the truth from being told and to vilify the people who are (still) seeking the truth, is a crime in itself.

We all saw red (not gray) hot molten metal pouring out, many floors below the impact zone, before both of the tallest buildings in the world collapsed into their own footprint, falling straight down in six seconds. Then, a third building dropped to the ground in what was unarguably a controlled demolition that was apparently anticipated. Yet, engineers who objectively ponder these issues are ridiculed as "conspiracy theorists." No, they are subject-matter experts and criminal investigators with plenty of crime to investigate.

When you consider that multiple airliners were hijacked in a diversion, the scope and magnitude of the operation and the amount of planning that had to have gone into it gives entirely new meaning to the word, "terrifying." And yet, the US Government continues to block investigation. It was perfectly content to blame the whole thing on the country with which it latest wanted to go to war, and subsequently did. But the entire infrastructure of the City of New York was completely compromised, and compromised for a very long period of time, by parties still unknown and apparently un-sought.

"There is no statute of limitations on the crime of Murder in the First Degree." Thousands of souls cry for justice – not lies.

The Official Story is "a lie we (sic - "version you) don't believe anymore."
Sundial apparently you wonder why you get flack over your conspiracy conclusions and the above is a great example. Despite many comments and links you seem entirely insular in that not a single line of your version has changed in even the most microscopic of details. You persist in insisting that controlled demolition is the ONLY possible cause for what you saw on TV when there could be at least several possibilities and you do this with 100% conviction. You keep harping the same tune even on details that have been so thoroughly debunked that only conspiracy theorists hang desperately on to them much like a child waving his hands over his ears and shouting "La La La La I can't hear you!" That, sir, is obsessive and static. Why would you publicly convey your character in such a manner?

The truth about something so complex is never that simple and most certainly not something an amateur can gauge with just his 5 senses on-the-fly. I'm almost surprised that you don't imagine that the Sun revolves around the Earth given such faith in your eyes ability to instinctively know it all. I can't help but wonder on a more cataclysmic scale (for you) what should occur within another 10 years (the new manned moon flights - I guess you don't trust robotic cameras) what will happen to your opinion of the Apollo Moon Landings and how you will deal with that. Will you even entertain the possibility that your denial was unfounded or simply find new "photographic evidence" of fakery?

Almost everyone here is aware you have an agenda that is absolutely unassailable by evidence. Why can't you see that?
 
Old 04-10-2018, 03:31 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Setting aside whether towers were demolished or fell for the moment...

Those in any doubt as to whether the US has considered "false flag" operations in the past, as a pretext to military action, should consider the the now declassified Northwoods and Mongoose documents
Most governing bodies whether just a King or a Committee have does this ever since there were tribes and for both good reasons and for bad and also some tightly connected and others real Fairy Tales that would be hilarious if so many didn't die over it. Thankfully those always come to light like the whole Yellowcake fabrication. What baffles me is why Bush, Cheney and several others haven't been tried as War Criminals and Traitors.
 
Old 04-10-2018, 04:16 PM   #50
Mill J
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@enorbet, I feel your rant about @sundialsvcs discribes you and possibly every other person in this thread as well. For example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk
There was molten steel running in the basement days later, that we saw on video.
Sounds Plausible....

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
and incidentally though rather important, steel was not melted. Do the research.
Any proof? As far as I can see your "theory" is just speculation as well as any other.

 
Old 04-10-2018, 07:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
@enorbet, I feel your rant about @sundialsvcs discribes you and possibly every other person in this thread as well.
Only sundialscvs posts make me wonder whether they're written by a bot though.
 
Old 04-10-2018, 10:56 PM   #52
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
@enorbet, I feel your rant about @sundialsvcs discribes you and possibly every other person in this thread as well. For example.@enorbet, I feel your rant about @sundialsvcs discribes you and possibly every other person in this thread as well.
I don't consider my post a rant at all since I'm not at all angry. It simply points out that Sundial has shown ultimate rigidity in his positions on a number of conspiracy oriented subjects. This should be obviously true as others mention it repeatedly and checking posts from a year ago compared top the present reveals nothing has changed not one single microscopic point despite as I mentioned some items for that are plainly ridiculous and some items against that just get ignored altogether in order to regurgitate the same meal over and over again. Others here have modified their positions as a matter of course since nobody knows everything and even if they did for a moment, things change. Once again, there is no shame in being wrong, only in staying wrong once solid evidence is in.

This is rather important so let me take a moment to expand on that and make it perfectly clear. Science goes to incredible lengths to try to disprove new ideas and to even greater lengths to establish the credibility of those that have so far avoided falsification.

Every new piece of evidence since 1920 has supported the conclusion that the Universe is expanding which implies that in the past it was smaller and continuing that regression results in the Universe existing at a single point at some point in time in the past. As recently as 1980 this was thought to be as much as 15,000,000,000 years ago. There are documentaries featuring Carl Sagan, for example quoting that number and I assure you had he lived, he like every other scientist would now quote 13.7 Billion years because testing has gotten that far since then. See? Flexibility and refinement as we dig deeper and with better tools. Wouldn't you agree that had Professor Sagan lived and continued to quote 15 Billion years, he would have been foolish and a target for accountability?

That is the basis for the so-called Big Bang. This is almost universally accepted as the best current explanation of The Beginning of SpaceTime. However, every scientist who has confidence in that progression of events is open to some new, yet undiscovered explanation that would fit better, because history shows us this can happen and being adaptable is essential to being critical and having any hope of "terra firma". Being absolutely rigid and insular is counter-productive to reason and Accuracy. In the case of this thread assuming that the ONLY cause for any molten metal (more on this below) is controlled demolition is short-sighted and agenda ridden at best.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by teckk
There was molten steel running in the basement days later, that we saw on video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
Sounds Plausible....
Yes it does "sound plausible" but when digging deeper just who is qualified to determine by sight alone, on a video feed no less, to determine if it was steel or even any kind of metal? At first some few spherical nodules were discovered but examination revealed those to be old and likely leftover from the welding process during original construction. Even if you find that doubtful the amount found is not consistent with any large scale melting process possibly involved in collapse.

Much of the metal debris was hauled off to dumpsites as soon as it cooled down enough to handle. Now that could be evidence of at least a desire to cover something up but if so it worked because we have none of that for any solid evidence so any conclusion, pro or con, is moot and speculative. Plus, even if we jump to the conclusion that the government (with the inclusion of every individual involved) did desire to cover something up it becomes even wilder speculation to "conclude" what that something was. To settle on "controlled demolition" is rather silly when there could be so many plausible things to be covered up, not the least of which is avoiding embarrassment at Intelligence Agencies failure to recognize imminent threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by enorbet
and incidentally though rather important, steel was not melted. Do the research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
Any proof? As far as I can see your "theory" is just speculation as well as any other.
As you hopefully can see while I can't prove that no steel melted, there is zero proof that it did, therefore it is a non-conclusion. There is good reason to believe that some aluminum may have melted but very little to go on for iron and steel. So it is not prudent to make an assumption that it did and then use that as if it were solid evidence to support something with even less evidence. That's just Rules of Evidence and very often a major fault in almost all conspiracy theories.

Incidentally much like The Kennedy Assassination, 9/11 was an event that took place in a moment in time and the only way now for someone to "see it with their own eyes" is through use of a time Machine and that is currently and possibly forever impossible, so any digging for Truth must be painstaking and subject to a great deal of cross-checking with evidence that has changed little since the event.

That is why I brought up the Apollo Moon Landings because there is still active proof of it's occurrence or not now and for a very long time. The only way to cover up that part of it is to go there which is an obvious Catch 22. However, in effect we can "go there" in that every major country on Earth tracked Apollo as it occurred and many of those countries would have loved to be able to prove it a hoax. Since then, and still going on today, we can bounce lasers off of the specialized reflectors that had to be precisely placed on the Moon. Robot cameras have photographed both Moon and Mars landing sites for many years now. Yet despite all this Sundial still hangs on to his belief that it was all a hoax. This speaks to the kind of thinking he allows himself and sheds light on how we should view this "conspiracy", don't you think?

Last edited by enorbet; 04-10-2018 at 11:05 PM.
 
Old 04-11-2018, 07:53 AM   #53
dogpatch
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...Since then, and still going on today, we can bounce lasers off of the specialized reflectors that had to be precisely placed on the Moon. Robot cameras have photographed both Moon and Mars landing sites for many years now. Yet despite all this Sundial still hangs on to his belief that it was all a hoax. This speaks to the kind of thinking he allows himself and sheds light on how we should view this "conspiracy", don't you think?
Wait - Sundial has stated a belief that the Apollo moon landing was a hoax? Please point me to that post. Or, Sundial - please confirm.
 
Old 04-11-2018, 08:24 AM   #54
Mill J
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@enorbet, If your using the big bang theory to justify/debunk 9/11, something's wrong, since the big bang theory has absolutely NO proof what so ever, and has been completely debunked many times over.

For example exactly what caused the big bang?

And where are the missing links to evolution? We have monkeys and we have humans but no links in between.

As far as moon landing and the assassination, those where many years before my time....
 
Old 04-11-2018, 05:39 PM   #55
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogpatch View Post
Wait - Sundial has stated a belief that the Apollo moon landing was a hoax? Please point me to that post. Or, Sundial - please confirm.
Wait, why does that even surprise you?

Anyway, not like it's a secret, here are a couple of posts:
"Wanna Build a ...? NASA’s About to Give Away a Mountain of Its Code" #14
Apollo Guidance Computer #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
As far as moon landing and the assassination, those where many years before my time....
So was evolution, though
 
Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #56
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It's interesting how otherwise intelligent people can fall for conspiracy theories and other irrational nonsense like global warming denial or evolution denial.
 
Old 04-11-2018, 08:18 PM   #57
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickMay16 View Post
It's interesting how otherwise intelligent people can fall for conspiracy theories and other irrational nonsense like global warming denial or evolution denial.
Please back up your statements... Nonsense? Seriously? When evolution is the new "Theory" on the block. Can you answer the questions in my previous post? I mean if you want to be related to apes and monkeys, more power to you.


Oh and why drag Global Warming in here? Although I have to say I agree with you in that Global Warming Is Real
 
Old 04-11-2018, 11:26 PM   #58
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
@enorbet, If your using the big bang theory to justify/debunk 9/11, something's wrong, since the big bang theory has absolutely NO proof what so ever, and has been completely debunked many times over.
Wow that's a huge stretch. My use of Big Bang Theory was simply to give an example of how Science evolves and adapts. is never rigid. Big Bang has NEVER been debunked... challenged of course since Falsification is a necessary component of The Scientific Method. Big Bang, so far has met every challenge and not only survived but is being refined and made more solid all the time. I suggest you research WMAP for starters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
For example exactly what caused the big bang?
Currently, and possibly forever, that cannot be known since it appears if Big Bang wasn't THE Beginning of everything it is a complete reset in that no information can apparently pass through the singularity for us to witness, test or falsify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
And where are the missing links to evolution? We have monkeys and we have humans but no links in between.
There is no shame in ignorance since no one person can know everything, but it appears you are lacking education with regards to the Theory of Evolution. There are no "missing links" in the sense that it is clear that all life on planet Earth is linked by DNA. Humans have DNA in common with everything far down the line from apes (not monkeys since although we have common ancestors the branch for monkeys came much later than our split from apes by millions of years) We have DNA in common with yeast and bacteria, in fact every living thing on Earth. Certainly we don't know each and every species that has ever existed or we could say we don't know all of the branches and twigs, but the Tree is quite clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
As far as moon landing and the assassination, those where many years before my time....
While the assassination was but a moment in time, albeit with ripples that will extend throughout time, there can be little or no new evidence. The moon landing however is not a mere moment in that either the items left behind exist or they don't and the recorded evidence of tracking by radar and other means is available for anyone at anytime to peruse. You didn't have to be there.

Last edited by enorbet; 04-11-2018 at 11:28 PM.
 
Old 04-12-2018, 08:49 AM   #59
teckk
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If you are younger, viewing this thread, too young to have seen this disaster when it occurred, there was molten steel at the WTC. Not just hot steel. And that was one of the major questions. How the steel was heated that hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSVJgAHDrfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8HS_mYAatM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_jMrJGF9M
 
Old 04-12-2018, 09:08 AM   #60
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
If you are younger, viewing this thread, too young to have seen this disaster when it occurred, there was molten steel at the WTC. Not just hot steel. And that was one of the major questions. How the steel was heated that hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSVJgAHDrfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8HS_mYAatM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_jMrJGF9M
Now, Now, didn't you hear enorbet? There was no molten steel, that all just made up. Or was there? I think you showed more proof than he did.


@enorbet I have to agree that DNA etc is shared. But you know as well as I do: you can't create life from rocks. Every living thing has an ancestor. So how did life get on earth in the first place?
 
  


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