OT: Windows Vista
 

This is software so I figured I'd post here. I just found out that Microsoft's Windows Vista is calling for at least 512 MB of RAM. What in the world! Where is there going to be room for applications? In case you're interested this is where I found it. It makes me smile when I think of the fact that my Linux desktop was free cept' for hardware and runs smooth as silk on 256 of RAM and an 850 Mhz processor.

You are forgetting that Vista (or what else they are going to call it) will (or it is supposed to) include a 3D desktop and many applets, basically more resource consuming eye-candy. But Linux won't stay behind, some might think KDE will turn 3D too :D, it's a high resource consuming desktop anyway :cool:
BTW I prefer and use Fluxbox ( a lightweight window manger )
Windows will still remain a buggy OS, and give out-of memory errors :p.

Your insight is astounding and we all appreciate it immensely... not! Have you ever used the new version of Windows? Have you seen any of it's codebase? Do you know any of the developers or design spec of the new OS? Unfounded rubbish is annoying, I saw you answer a question before, I had high hopes for someone intelligent :(

... would you have been happier if Worksman had qualified that he "expects windows to remain buggy and prone to out of memory errors"?

Is there reason to expect anything else?

I've never eaten arsinic, but I expect it to lead to an unpleasant experience. So much so that I would be quite prepared to state categorically that "eating arsinic will lead to unpleasant experiences". Nuff said.

Oh come on! Can't you understand a devoted linux users hatred agains proprietary OS's?
And basecode? What basecode? You see that at Mic**soft?
If MS would release the source code, believe me that would make Window the base desktop and server OS on the planet! But it looks like that's just not their plan! Their plan is to make MONEY!
Don't be hating! ok? :D
Oh, and don't expect *very* intelligent answers from me regarding windoze!

KDE
 

I use KDE b/c it's just so handy and pretty. I have no problems with Mandriva 2005 LE and this version of KDE, so I don't plan on updating to 2006 or new versions of KDE any time soon unless I see something in them I need. Especially if KDE goes 3-d I will keep this one just because I like to use my system resources for running my applications, not my operating system. I just installed fluxbox though and it's like two packages and takes all of about 2 seconds to start up, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't have desktop shortcuts or anything. I'll play with it some more later though, looks pretty handy for computers like mine. (See signature for specs) And yes it's sad but true, nobody has seen the codebase for Windows except for developers because they are painfully "closed" source. I do like XP though, it's on my laptop (primarily cause' all of the hardware including USB ports was built proprietary for Windows) and it's not a really bad OS, lots of nifty tools. There is a similar topic on another forum I post on if you're interested you can click here

Windows-bashing is one of my pet hates. Don't feel like I've singled you out, I've been over this many times before and it's frustrating. I use linux because I like the level of control it offers and the fact that I can contribute to projects where I see fit. Before using linux I used Windows for years and never had a problem with the OS that wasn't directly my fault (WinME aside). I used to be a mod at a large web development forum and I know a large number of Windows users who have yet to experience spyware, because they maintain their computers effectively.

If you were to take a computer, install linux, log it in as root and load KDE and associated garbage and leave it without a firewall and unprotected then it would get rooted before long as well. My point is don't knock the OS when 95% of problems are the users fault. If you've had a genuine problem with Windows and use that example to back up your post then I'll leave you alone but until then you can expect me to be on your back asking for a valid reason for your comments.

Poor Windows ME, everybody hates it, lol.

Oh and I edited my long post earlier so you might wanna check it out again, a reply was posted before I finished editing it though.

cs-cam I will like to say only this since I don't want to start a forum fight or something: I disagree with you regarding windows. The best Windows as I see it is still 2K. About Spyware: yah I had no problems with it *infecting* my computer, because I ran a bunch of antispyware programs that took too much memory and CPU resources. Viruses are something else, I have only bad memories with windows regarding this. Why? A goog antivirus program and easy on the RAM and resoures is not out there to find. If it's my mistake and one magically got built, then it probably costs a fortune. That 95% seems too big, I would say 75% average. If you are still going to argue then I will not reply, as I've seen before this kind of subject destroy relationships :D and I don't care wheter you use Windows or Linux as long as we get along good and can help eachother answering on linuxquestions :D . Hell, I would not care or argue (or hate you ;)) even if you say Linux is sh*t!

I use AVG Free Edition, it's a free antivirus available on download.com with regular updates, auto scans, and is fairly easy on your system. I ran it on an old 95 machine with 32 MB of RAM and a 133 Mhz processor with no problem, and it catches viruses better than some of the commercial ones I've seen. Just wanted to let you know in case you still had a Windows machine sitting around in need of an anti-virus.

OK Thank you very much, I still have WXP on my laptop since that's what my bro uses! And I run Nor*on :D !!! Slow as hell. I'm thinking of doing some dualbooting! As for spyware, anything good? I'm just lookin for something to losen up that system (3.02GHz 512MB DDR333 80 GB 4200RPM :D)

I used to suggest Spyware Doctor but they no longer offer a free version of that. You could look though and see I could be wrong. On my Windows laptop though I use Microsoft Anti-spyware and Ad-aware SE Personal. Microsoft Ant-spyware requires you to verify that you have a legal copy of Windows though so that's kind of a downer. Just search for spyware on download.com and read some of the reviews there's probably all kinds of stuff.

I have no intention of starting a fight but a good conversation never hurt anyone ;)

Yeah well, if you use Norton then naturally you'll only have bad memories, I'm sorry for your loss heh. AVG is good, I used the free edition when I used Windows and never had a problem. I'd like to suggest something to deal with the spyware but unfortunately I can't having never suffered from it myself. Same as the best contraception is keeping it in your pants, the best way to clean spyware is not get it in the first place. Don't use Internet Explorer, don't install Kazaa, pay attention to the sites you visit and read dialogs before you click Yes. Research software before you install it and I can't see you having any problems, I know I didn't.

Being cautious about the sites you visit and programs you install will beat any spyware scanner any day and it doesn't make a dent on your system resources, only on your brain so be careful ;) AVG will be much lighter on your system than Norton ever was, go install it and come back in a week and tell us all how you feel then :)

OK. I never thought I would bust into Windows again :D Especially on a linux forum! Well Linux is still my favorite, bacause I can live with lack of games like DOOM3 or FEAR, because I don't play them :D Quake is enough for me ;) There is no other main reason for me to go back to windows except this, games or programming(well that later). :D

Heh, there is a native linux version of Doom 3 as well as a few "name brand" shooters. Don't let people tell you linux is no good for gaming cause that ones not true these days either :)

I think windows is a good os until you are starting to have higher demands on you os. I like to be able to customize without installing tons of add-on application. To be able to custom tailor my desktop to fit me, and my work.

Unreal Tournament 2004 I know for a fact is Linux compatable by nature, so you don't need an emulator for it. For other games though Wine and Cedega have solved these problems until companies start recognizing Linux as a valid OS and making their games Linux compatable.

You make it sound as if every game work in cedega.
I totaly understand why game developers don't make games for linux, until about 2 years ago there where almost just programmers using linux. And still most gamers aren't interested in computers on a level that they deside that they won't to use linux. And even if linux got a bigger share of the market today than 8 years ago it is still to small market to spend money on. I would rather spend money on macintosh users if I where a companie.
I think there are more linux users that dual-boot to play games than there are those who skippes a game if it is a game they really wan't.

Banished to General, with the rest of this troll happy drivel.

A fair few games do work okay in Cedega. If more game developers used OpenGL rather than DirectX then writing linux ports would be easy, that's where the big difference is.

You can say that again!
BTW is there any benefit to DX rather than using OGL?
They are both layers that reside between the graphical adapter and the application.
In DX's case I see it that the layers would be APP<->DX<->Driver<->Card.
And in OGL, since OGL is hardware instructions(right?) : APP<->Driver<->Card.
Now who's better? :)
Any fancy new texture rendering stuff new in DX and not found in GLX?
I don't think so.

Well heres the detailed differences,

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/art...rticle1775.asp

Very boring actually unless you're a game programmer or. 3d graphics designer, but basically the gist is, directx appears to finally be catching up with opengl and for programmers it can offer quick and dirty solutions for their problems. Opengl seems to be slower on windows by default.(probably not by accident) Chances are you'll only notice this if you play a game that has both directx and opengl implementation(such as quake2) with show fps on.

It seems that Windows vista going to be shipped with a crippled version opengl. So I guess the solution is to never use windows default drivers.Which every gamer probably knows anyway.

On what planet do you live then?
First of all Windows is already the leading desktop OS and doesn't do to bad in the server world as well. Believe me, I don't like the fact, but you just have to face reality.
Second, opening the windows base code wouldn't make windows any better. You have to keep in mind that the windows platform keeps it's backward compatibility wich implies support for win16 and very old DOS code. This is a very complex thing and I sincerily doubt if open-sourcing the system would make anyone willing to improve that pile of shit, because that is one of the things that create the code complexity that has leaded to the buggyness of the system.

So please if you don't have a clue on this subject, don't give us all this crap. FUD about linux is bad for the community, but FUD about windows is even worse! If you like linux, act as an adult.

Re: OT: Windows Vista
 

Did you actually read that article or are you just bashing without reading like most people will probably do?

The 512mb requirement is born of the Windows Vista Ready (You know like the laptops that come with the sticker that says "Designed for Windows XP" its the same exact thing) Besdes 512mb of ram is pretty much becoming the norm today. Its pretty cheap at that too.

I'm not bashing Windows no, I use Windows XP on my laptop and happen to like it quite a bit, I've never had a problem with stability or viruses or anything, but the recommended amount of RAM for XP is 128, minimum 64, and making the jump to 512 seems like a big one and seems like computers are going to be pushed harder just to run the operating system, not to mention anything else.

yeah the "Recommended" for Windows XP is 128 but even that is not enough. At the very least I never recommend less then 256 for XP. 512mb is not a big jump though. remember when Windows XP came out 512mb of ram was like $100 or more. Now 512mb of ram is like $40 bucks a lot more affordable. There are a lot of factors when MS determines the Windows Ready specs.. Cost is a lot of it.

In responce to DOOM 3 being on Linux.

Did anyone else noticed it cost $80? Until the price of games goes down on games made for Linux i'll stick to my windows box for that.

C'mon, we lost track of the original topic yonks ago! Keep up :)

So buy the windows version, then download the native executable.

That's not the minimum, thats the reccomended. Remember, most people get Windows as part of the purchase of new hardware, so all that it means is that the manufacturer will have to put a bigger memory stick into the product.

There is no "Doom 3 for Linux" sitting on a shelf somewhere in a shop, that is exactly how to install it in linux. He's saying that Doom 3 is more expensive that your average comparable game that runs only on Windows.

where the heck do you buy doom 3 for 80$?? it kosts 22$ at my local shop

Obviously it no longer is at that price, now you can get it close to the same price as the windows version (Froogle it). But when it first came out that was the price.

I'm sorry here, windows is still leading the 'planet'! Don't know what gotten into me.
The release of the base-code would make Windows better, because I think that getting rid of the backward compatibility would do that, but your right that no one would improve that pile of *hit.

LOL. True dat.

For God's sake, will you ever admit that Windows has improved over 95?

Windows 2000 and XP sure are a vast improvement over Windows 98, as was Windows 98. However, Windows Me was a huge LEAP backwards from Windows 98, and Windows Vista is a leap backwards from Windows XP, mainly due to the DRM and more intentional back doors.

I'm not talking about POLICY here, I'm talking about PERFORMANCE. Many people on these forums still refer back to blue-screen jokes as excuses to hate Windows. Some are just plain stuck in time when in comes to operating system superiority. Even when Windows 9x reigned Linux was falling apart.

I've had the blue screen a couple of times on XP, though I'm not sure why. It's been a long time though, probably fixed. XP is not all that bad. If it was free (or cheaper) I would probably like it better than I currently do! 95 and 98 were a little buggy IMO, with occasional lock-ups.

ME was horrible and never should have been released. Anyone who bought a copy should get twice their money back. A friend's computer had ME on it and went to the blue-death screen every other time it was turned on. Still have no clue why. And it couldn't be turned off without the blue-death screen (they just unplugged it to turn it off!). Anytime it was connected to the Internet was downright fearful. It became an entity of it's own. I shudder to even think of discussing that further!

Anyway, an upgrade to XP really helped them out. They got it free since I switched to Linux on my lappy.

About Vista being a leap backwards, how can one tell that (since it's not out yet)? If Vista is to XP as ME was to 98, that could be disastrous. But that remains to be seen. I wish I knew what all DRM entailed, and what the "intentional back doors" in Vista were. Could sound like I'm defending Windows but I'm not at all, just hungry for information on new developments.

Hey, one great feature Windows Vista will bring: Instead of the BSOD that has been boring you to tears, Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom(sic), will be introducing the brand-spanking-new Red Screen of Doom, or RSOD, for really, really, really bad errors, for your viewing enjoyment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSoD

yup - it looks cool -
I wish only if they had Jim Carrey (aka Mask style) on First Run Intro - telling how TC was beneficial.

Well DirectX and OpenGL aren't same class of API. Direct3D and OpenGL however are.

I say OpenGL is a lot more to the point than Direct3D. You don't have to memorize this huge class heirarchy, you can just start rendering. It also doesn't have this crappy DXD3DV3FBLAH naming standard. Over all OGL is neater.

and I have to say that article is OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLDD.

Dude just get a new computer. Thier cheap these days anyway.

Well, now Vista is released. I haven't used it myself but I've seen it blue-screen twice on short visits. It is as unstable as ME. (Wow)