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View Poll Results: On 9/11, who and what brought down the World Trade Center?
Al Qaeda terrorists flying hijacked planes, following only Al Qaeda's plan 21 60.00%
Something else. 14 40.00%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2017, 01:54 AM   #106
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Now that we finally know where you stand in this debate; why is it "naive" (as you keep saying) to believe in "any explanation"?
you left out one small adverb which i believe to be very important in my statement.
scroll back, read again, maybe you can find it.
it answers your question.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 05:02 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
you left out one small adverb which i believe to be very important in my statement.
scroll back, read again, maybe you can find it.
it answers your question.
I guess you don't want explain but expect others to, ok, have it your way. I'm not going to even try and guess.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 06:55 AM   #108
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Ah, no it isn't, mate. It's HIGHLY relevant, as I'd like to be able to trust the source of said "evidence". Otherwise it's just silly to believe anyone, wouldn't you say?
I say the same about trusting the official version, when there is reasonable doubt. If you're prepared to believe that official sources never lie or hide the truth, then you need to wake up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Has anyone PROVED it?? If so, SHOW US the prove! And NOT from a questionable 9/11 "truth" site either!
Show me the proof that traces of thermite were not found in the dust & ruins. And not from a government-sponsored expert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Anyone care to rebut this? anyone?
It would need standard controlled-demolition knowledge, that's all.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 07:13 AM   #109
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
I say the same about trusting the official version,...
I'm sure you would, I DO believe you on that one.

Quote:
...when there is reasonable doubt.
Which you once again have provided NO proof of.

Quote:
...If you're prepared to believe that official sources never lie or hide the truth, then you need to wake up.
And where did I say that "I believe that official sources never lie or hide the truth"?? I think you need to wake up.

Quote:
Show me the proof that traces of thermite were not found in the dust & ruins. And not from a government-sponsored expert.
As other members have rightfully said; That's up to you, as YOUR the one that is saying that "traces of thermite were found". So YOU need to PROVE that, not me. As you have already been told by other members; the burden of proof, falls to you to backup YOUR argument with PROOF. I'm not going to prove YOUR argument for you mate, sorry.

Quote:
It would need standard controlled-demolition knowledge, that's all.
And you call that a rebuttal? Not a very good one at best.

Also, theory = theory NOT fact, THAT's all!

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 10-17-2017 at 07:25 AM. Reason: typo/additions
 
Old 10-17-2017, 07:56 AM   #110
brianL
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Going round in circles now, aren't we?
 
Old 10-17-2017, 08:01 AM   #111
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The notion that it was "thermite" basically comes from lack of knowledge of the state of the art of demolition ... which SOTA I do not profess to know, either. The challenge to "find it" is therefore used as an argument for The Official Story.

And one must realize why The Official Story exists, and why efforts are made to sell it to the public. The people want to know, but they do not necessarily need to know, most-especially in a case like this. "Official Secrecy" is actually a very important part of public protection, as are cover-stories.

Given the enormity of what appears to be the actual truth, that cover-story sounds pretty good: "the engineers were all morons." (Especially in the case of the building that held the counter-terrorism response center: the damned thing was so weak that it just fell into its own footprint on its own!) Uh huh. Got it.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 08:30 AM   #112
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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Show me the proof that thermite wasn't involved in the big bang!!! is just as ridiculous a comment.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 08:45 AM   #113
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One thing for sure: if the 3 buildings collapsed purely through the effects of burning jet fuel + office furniture + plastics, they shouldn't have passed any building safety regulations.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 09:37 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Going round in circles now, aren't we?
Well, it certainly seems like you are, now doesn't it?

So I take it, you still cannot prove it? Didn't think so...

Remember it was only YOU that said/suggested that there where "traces of thermite" found. Only your own argument, that YOU cannot backup with any proof.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 11:15 AM   #115
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
No, not really. I'm certainly not working for anyone, and I think it is rather interesting that "Natural Collapse" is implicitly described as the "right answer" such that someone has to sow "disbelief" in it, and that there must be an "agenda."

The frank reality of the situation is that, even on that day and the days immediately following, I looked at what I saw, put two and two together, and formed my own opinion ... an opinion which has never wavered since that fateful day. It never will. Furthermore, I know that I am not alone.

"How are they gonna 'cover story' this one?" I wondered. And when the story came out, I thought, "Oh, you have got to be kidding."

To me, there is exactly one explanation: demolition. Three times in a row, and perfect. This is my own self-drawn conclusion, and it will never change nor be changed. No one gave it to me.

I'm not a demolition expert. I don't pretend to know the state of the art in high explosives nor in detonation techniques. I can plainly see what they did, but I don't know how they did it. I don't feel the slightest need to know, technically speaking, "how they did it." And furthermore, I don't expect to ever know "who they are."

There are many gaps in my understanding of what happened, and I do not wish for these gaps to ever be filled. As I have stated, these are things that I believe should remain Secret. Neither do I fault the existence of a cover story, or ask for one whit more. "Yes, you certainly know more than what you are telling. This is War, not 'an act of terrorism.' Keep your mouth shut."
I quoted your entire post for a very important reason. See, if someone reputable actually had verified rubble from any one of the three buildings that clearly showed not only thermite but any explosive, or for that matter any inescapable evidence whatsoever that tipped the odds making demolition more likely I have zero problem with coming around to that conclusion. I simply don't "have a dog in this race". I am not at all wedded to the idea that no American would even think of such a thing. I could even believe that they might believe they needed to destroy a few thousand to save millions, that somehow they had convinced themselves "it was for the greater good".

You, OTOH sundialsvcs, have admitted that not only did you come to your conclusion before any evidence was in excepting what you could see (and interpret) with your eyes, but that it was then and forevermore absolutely unassailable. Case closed. Your entire above quoted post states that nothing can sway you from your initial impression, not experts with high tech studies, not lack of evidence on the part of similarly convinced people... nothing .

Don't you see this effectively removes you from any possible conversation involving study let alone discovering the verifiable proof? Case closed means exactly that. You have zero interest in evidence but that of your own conviction. You are effectively hermetically sealed and voluntarily at that. I think that is very sad.

Last edited by enorbet; 10-17-2017 at 11:16 AM.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 11:37 AM   #116
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Indeed!
 
Old 10-17-2017, 12:33 PM   #117
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I guess you don't want explain but expect others to, ok, have it your way. I'm not going to even try and guess.
the adverb you so conveniently (convenient for your populistic simplifications) chose to overlook is "fully".
 
Old 10-17-2017, 12:43 PM   #118
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
the adverb you so conveniently (convenient for your populistic simplifications) chose to overlook is "fully".
1) I was not "conveniently overlooking" anything.
2) I'm also not a mind reader.
3) Where does "populistic simplifications" come from? or should I not ask?
 
Old 10-17-2017, 01:12 PM   #119
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Where does "populistic simplifications" come from? or should I not ask?
for example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Now that we finally know where you stand in this debate
the notion of "taking sides" in an issue as complex as this, with so much confusing, contradicting information and lack of hard facts, is a populistic simplification.

but you've been practicing that a lot in various threads.
seems to be a common thing on the other side of the big pond.

(no doubt you'll ask now "where did i do that? show me, i'm from missouri!")...

Last edited by ondoho; 10-17-2017 at 01:14 PM.
 
Old 10-17-2017, 02:22 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
You, OTOH sundialsvcs, have admitted that not only did you come to your conclusion before any evidence was in excepting what you could see (and interpret) with your eyes, but that it was then and forevermore absolutely unassailable. Case closed. Your entire above quoted post states that nothing can sway you from your initial impression, not experts with high tech studies, not lack of evidence on the part of similarly convinced people... nothing .

Don't you see this effectively removes you from any possible conversation involving study let alone discovering the verifiable proof? Case closed means exactly that. You have zero interest in evidence but that of your own conviction. You are effectively hermetically sealed and voluntarily at that. I think that is very sad.
"Sad" though you may consider it to be, I know what I saw on that day, and I very-instantly knew ... to my indescribable horror ... exactly what it meant.

Not only had airline security been compromised at least three times, but the foundational infrastructure and the counter-terrorism response plan of the City of New York as well. I could not conceive of it. I still can't. This was an act of War, but an act of war unlike any other that the world had ever seen. (Or, fortunately, has seen again. Yet?)

Of course I knew that an official cover story would come, and I more-or-less anticipated what it turned out to be. While I fully understand the necessity of promulgating such a story, along with as much expert testimony as may be required to sell it to the public, I am unmoved by it ... and so I will remain.

I do not know the truth. I do not understand the technology. And, in this particular case, I really don't want the truth to be known, because to do so would reveal far too much ancillary information that must be kept secret. Given that we are faced with an Enemy who not only had the capability to do this, but the psychopathic willingness to do so, and who did so, we know that we are dealing with no mere "terrorists," but something infinitely darker and more deadly. Secrecy is a potent weapon against them.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 10-17-2017 at 02:25 PM.
 
  


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