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View Poll Results: On 9/11, who and what brought down the World Trade Center?
Al Qaeda terrorists flying hijacked planes, following only Al Qaeda's plan 18 60.00%
Something else. 12 40.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2017, 10:11 PM   #46
jefro
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When a tire goes flat on my truck I don't suspect crazy stuff. I suspect the nail sticking out of it. Guess it could be a professional hit man trying to kill me? Guess it could be a CIA plot to make me buy a new tire? Maybe the nail was 3D printed there before I stopped?
 
Old 10-11-2017, 04:04 AM   #47
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Fred Dibnah did it. Brits will know who he was, foreigners & ex-colonials may not. He was famous for demolishing mill chimneys, with a complete disregard for health & safety. We shall not see his like again. Loads of stuff on youtube about him:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ry=fred+dibnah
 
Old 10-11-2017, 08:31 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Add to all this that any internal conspirators could have much more easily just placed a single massive bomb, say 10-20 times the power of Timothy'McVeigh's crude truck bomb and like him, done it all in one day with little to no exposure and accomplished sufficient outrage to enact War on Terror and Homeland Security. If you think that even too small to do the job then just imagine doing it simulataneously in 20 cities, STILL easier and safer. There was no need to build a Rube Goldberg device. Path of least resistance, Cuz.
... and that's what made this crime "inconceivable."

I really can't imagine what went through the minds of the public officials and experts when they began to comprehend just what had occurred, and then realized that the danger was not yet over. How they – very fortuitously(?) – made the subsequent discovery about "Building 7" and kept everyone out of there, we might never know (and should not ask). (It's also interesting that a news-reporter and camera were positioned in the right place at the right time to film the fall.)

It takes a lot of people, working together, to accomplish this. How could the heart and mind of a human being – if such people have a heart at all, which I sincerely doubt – contemplate to do such an incomprehensibly evil thing? How is it that not a single one of them showed any remorse, or betrayed the operation before it occurred? The word, "psychopath," seems much too puny to describe them.

Especially to know that they're probably living among us today. How can they bear to live? I just don't know.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 10-11-2017 at 08:36 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 09:24 AM   #49
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
So, what can you do? The textbook response ... which seems entirely sensible to me, given the awful circumstances ... would be this:
  • "Throw out a cover story, and insist upon it!"
  • Then, in top(!) secret, start to develop actual defenses. Keep all details of these defenses, and/or of the development thereof, likewise "top secret."
  • If anyone of the public asks too-nosy questions, point them back to the Official Cover Story.
  • ... and, if any of them "quite-logically, would see through this," take them aside.
When faced with "an enemy like this(!)" ... Knowledge is not merely Power, but it just might be your only Defense.
I have a problem with this story. If it's so logical and easy to see through the cover story, won't the "enemy" easily see through it as well? Seems like a pretty flimsy defense.

Another question is, why is the building falling carefully in its own footprint evidence in favour of this mysterious enemy.
If they are so evil and psychopathic, wouldn't it make even more sense to have it fall over and destroy additional buildings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
When a tire goes flat on my truck I don't suspect crazy stuff. I suspect the nail sticking out of it. Guess it could be a professional hit man trying to kill me? Guess it could be a CIA plot to make me buy a new tire? Maybe the nail was 3D printed there before I stopped?
Maybe the nail came from the ruins of the World Trade center? Maybe 9/11 was an elaborate CIA plot to make you change your tire?
 
Old 10-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #50
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Fred Dibnah did it. Brits will know who he was, foreigners & ex-colonials may not. He was famous for demolishing mill chimneys, with a complete disregard for health & safety. We shall not see his like again. Loads of stuff on youtube about him:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ry=fred+dibnah
While, I'm really not sure, I want to know, let's put Geeeeeee, back in to General (General forum, that is); how do you come up with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
...Maybe the nail came from the ruins of the World Trade center? Maybe 9/11 was an elaborate CIA plot to make you change your tire?
I think you know too much!
 
Old 10-11-2017, 10:07 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Not an expert: but doesn't velocity * mass give you a clue?
If the 'planes hit: detonate the explosives.
If the 'planes miss: don't detonate the explosives.
As soon as I saw the towers collapse, I thought surely the 'planes hit too high up to bring down the towers like that.
Velocity * Mass is not enough for these calculations. Where to put the explosives to bring a building down in a controlled way is dependent on the structural integrity of the building. Where and in which quantity the explosives have to be placed is dependent on factors that will instantly be changed when a large plane hits the building, for example when it damages the steel skeleton of the building or when the burning fuel weakens some joints, but not others. These calculations have to be done before the explosives can be placed, but they are void if the circumstances are changed, for example by a plane hitting the building.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 10-11-2017 at 10:14 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:09 AM   #52
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
...when the burning fuel weakens some joints, but not others...
In a case like that, wouldn't the building topple at an angle, rather than straight down? The towers fell into their own footprints, just like a perfect controlled demolition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2E_m7l2Rww
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:14 AM   #53
brianL
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Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
While, I'm really not sure, I want to know, let's put Geeeeeee, back in to General (General forum, that is); how do you come up with that?
I believe it's what some would call a feeble attempt at humour, or humor.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:22 AM   #54
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
I believe it's what some would call a feeble attempt at humour, or humor.
Yeah, alright you got me... but, only in part; it would still be nice to know how you come to that conclusion?
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:29 AM   #55
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
In a case like that, wouldn't the building topple at an angle, rather than straight down? The towers fell into their own footprints, just like a perfect controlled demolition.
If airplane fuel could bring down a skyscraper, the Empire State Building would have toppled when a bomber hit it.

Any tall building has to be designed to withstand an airplane impact ... and WTC-1/2 did so. The firefighters went right in, thinking that they knew what they were up against and having been specifically trained to do so.

In the case of the second tower, we actually see the top of the building beginning to fall sideways, when suddenly "everything underneath it was offering no resistance whatever," and thereafter it fell straight down. Unless the entire structure lost integrity top-to-bottom at the same instant, falling pieces would have encountered pieces that were not yet falling and they would have been deflected wildly to either side. Instead, we watched the entire thing simply dematerialize, right before our eyes.

And, as I've said before, "WTC #7" removed all doubt, as no doubt it was intended to do. One moment it's standing there, behind the reporter and his camera. Seven seconds later, it's gone. Starting with the penthouse, exactly as a demo expert would know to do.

And that's the incomprehensible thing: there really is no alternative explanation. If only there were, maybe we could all seek closure and feel safe. But instead, the reality – unescapable, right before our eyes – proves the existence of unspeakable horror, and vulnerability. ...

"You're damn right(!)" I want to see it kept very secret! As much as I (of course) want to know, I am afraid for it to be fully known. I want a truthful investigation to have been done, and by now I expect that it has. But, I do not want the results of (or the existence of) that investigation to be disclosed to the public. An enemy who is capable of this, and who did this, is unspeakably dangerous.
Quote:
"C'est la guerre!" So, in order to protect the millions of people who live and work every day in tall buildings, both in New York City and around the globe, I will not tell you what is known. I will look you squarely in the eye and tell you a lie. I will present you with a cover story that maybe you know to be preposterous. I will not apologize. I will insist that the cover is true and do everything in my power to coax you to believe it.

But then, our eyes might meet just a little bit longer, and there might be unspoken communication between us, that says what I will not say.

"C'est ... la ... guerre." ... ... "Knowledge Is Power, and I am sworn to protect it."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 10-11-2017 at 12:12 PM.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:36 AM   #56
brianL
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Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Yeah, alright you got me... but, only in part; it would still be nice to know how you come to that conclusion?
Humour. Joke. Not to be taken seriously. Forget it. I have.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 11:43 AM   #57
jsbjsb001
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Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Humour. Joke. Not to be taken seriously. Forget it. I have.
Oh, I'm still laughing, you cheeky devil... You got me twice now... Oh no, you son of a gun!
 
Old 10-11-2017, 05:58 PM   #58
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
If airplane fuel could bring down a skyscraper, the Empire State Building would have toppled when a bomber hit it.
.
One cannot compare the structure of the Empire State Building which, because it was so new back in 1930 (not too awful far from 100 years ago) it was incredibly overbuilt "just in case..." since so little was known and computer modeling wasn't even a gleam in the eye of the parents of the developers of microprocessors.

As for "If airplane fuel could bring down a skyscraper" that is easily proved by simple Physics especially when you add wood, paper, plastics, etc so common in offices PLUS the natural bellows of elevator shafts once a chimney effect is made by a heated, gaping hole high above. OTOH if it was NOT possible, engineers and physicists all over the world would be crying "Baloney!". They aren't.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 06:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
This is especially evident when you watch the WTC-7 building drop into its own footprint
Where else should they have fallen? In the western culture we entertain a tradition of building houses
upright, pointing straight away from the mass center of the earth. The towers dropping into their
footprints only proves that gravity pulled them there as it was supposed to do.
 
Old 10-12-2017, 08:08 AM   #60
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When thousands of tons falls even 10 feet any diversionary vector afforded by structural resistance is so exceeded by the straight down vector of kinetic energy it is as if a fly stood in the path of a charging elephant. Do the math.
 
  


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