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newbiesforever 02-10-2017 04:29 PM

newbies and...whatever the opposite is
 
So an inexperienced user on a forum, who may get mocked by bullies who have hung around there longer, is called a "newbie." I've always wondered what word describes the opposite of a newbie. I could look it up in an antonym dictionary, but besides that there might be no particular antonym, I'm thinking of forum jargon. I've never known or thought of a single word for an anti-newbie. Certainly not a punchy one.

BW-userx 02-10-2017 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbiesforever (Post 5668569)
So an inexperienced user on a forum, who may get mocked by bullies who have hung around there longer, is called a "newbie." I've always wondered what word describes the opposite of a newbie. I could look it up in an antonym dictionary, but besides that there might be no particular antonym, I'm thinking of forum jargon. I've never known or thought of a single word for an anti-newbie. Certainly not a punchy one.

newbie opposite oldie
opposites attract like a magnet

Keith Hedger 02-10-2017 07:50 PM

Sad f**k that hasn't go anything better to do with his life than make endless posts to a geek forum?
Maybe a bit long winded, needs to be shorter and snapier :)

jefro 02-10-2017 08:07 PM

Are you being mocked?

I regularly use the term newbie and it only means someone that I have to watch what I say to. If I were to talk to some of the senior people in very technical terms I'd assume they would understand it. When I speak to a newbie, I try to use terms that won't make their head spin and eyes glass over and have them mumble stuff.

In reality, we are all newbies each day.

However, I hope you get some tougher skin. Being called a newbie shouldn't bother anyone.
While I'll agree that one shouldn't be bullied on LQ, they should also either tell a mod or Jeremy or PM the people who might be doing this.

Jjanel 02-10-2017 08:55 PM

I'm *terrified* to post new [my] question Threads on LQ.
'Because' when I started, I got 'reported' for 'wasting [Gurus'] time' (in General yet)!
It's *my* IMAGEing IMAGEination, == *my* 'belief'.
It it realistic? Not any more (or less) than any other [arbitrarily chosen] belief.
I can be terrified of snakes/bees/Win10/blood/ANYthing, or *'love'* it.

So, is 'reality' "REAL"? Absolutely [NOT]!
I/any_human can IMAGE*==believe ANYthing!
AND, what's worse/better, it *doesn't matter*!
Because, relative to the universe, we're "grains of sand".
There's dozens of millions of humans 'suffering horrifically' somewhere on earth.
The *only* 'thing' that matters/exists, for humans, is what they 'IMAGE'==think==believe.

That's the way the human mind/brain works. And it doesNOT matter. OK, I'll post now. Bye.

frankbell 02-10-2017 09:11 PM

The most common antonym to "newbies" that I've seen is "old-timers."

I have seen places where old-timers mock newbies. I have always found that mocking inexperienced users for being inexperienced is nothing more than cyber-bullying, in which persons try to make themselves look big by tearing others down.

One thing I like about LQ is that the great majority of persons who frequent this place remember that we were all newbies once. I was certainly a rank newbie when I first came here.

With over half a million registrants, LQ has seen members who may not behave in a welcoming manner, just as it has seen members who fail to observe its guidelines. Nevertheless, the proportion of ill-behavior that I've seen here is far lower than I've seen at many other internet places.

wpeckham 02-10-2017 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbiesforever (Post 5668569)
So an inexperienced user on a forum, who may get mocked by bullies who have hung around there longer, is called a "newbie." I've always wondered what word describes the opposite of a newbie. I could look it up in an antonym dictionary, but besides that there might be no particular antonym, I'm thinking of forum jargon. I've never known or thought of a single word for an anti-newbie. Certainly not a punchy one.

This is not a binary function or range: Opposites of a newbie are Power User, GURU, and Wizard (once called 'hacker', until the term was corrupted to mean the same as 'breaker' by that stupid movie).

A 'Wizard' may be a 'GURU', and a 'GURU' may be a 'wizard', but the two are not exactly the same: both imply and higher degree of knowledge, training, and experience. A 'Power User' is unlikely to have the depth of knowledge of the underlying systems as compared to a 'GURU' or 'WIZARD', but often has more interface and application experience and may be able to explain a procedure using shorter words and less (or at least different) technical jargon.
None of them should ever be considered 'anti newby'. but see term 'TROLL' for that special case.

Note: 'TROLL' does not imply that any of the other terms apply, it is an independent characteristic.

A term related to but less destructive than 'TROLL" is 'BEAR': this is a 'WIZARD', 'Power User', or 'GURU' that is perpetually in a very bad mood but does attempt to help. Possibly in terms that may crush your ego.

For all of these cases and the many that fall somewhere between, it pays to be patient and polite, and consider that they may be acting as a 'BEAR' because they have not been laid (or even had a date) in four or more years.

hazel 02-11-2017 02:06 AM

A lot of people distinguish between newbies and noobs. A newbie is simply inexperienced. He or she still has L-plates on. So, as Jefro says, people who give advice to newbies must try not to use over-technical language. But no one stays a newbie for long.

A noob is a hapless person who not only doesn't know much but has shown him/herself to be a poor learner. Noobs make posts with totally uninformative titles, they use text-speak, they don't read man pages or carry out any Google searches before posting, they don't provide adequate information on their problem or try out suggestions and report back on what happened, and they whine all time.

Some people don't know the difference between a newbie and a noob. They just flame anyone who appears to be ignorant. Which is a great pity.

273 02-11-2017 02:46 AM

THe first time I was called a newby was around 1986 whyen I started "big school" -- I was puzzled so asked somebody a little older what it meant and was told it was short for "new boy". So, the "opposite" is "old boy".
There is some discussion around the place on the origins of the term but since I was called newby before the WWW and before most people had the internet I'm happy to assume it's from the British public school system and is simply descriptive and in no way derogatory.

Edit: As an aside, the titles on this site are just for fun and anybody using their title as a badge of authority should be ignored. Similarly, though, anybody taking notice of forum titles should learn not to do so.

newbiesforever 02-11-2017 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpeckham (Post 5668665)
This is not a binary function or range: Opposites of a newbie are Power User, GURU, and Wizard (once called 'hacker', until the term was corrupted to mean the same as 'breaker' by that stupid movie).

A 'Wizard' may be a 'GURU', and a 'GURU' may be a 'wizard', but the two are not exactly the same: both imply and higher degree of knowledge, training, and experience. A 'Power User' is unlikely to have the depth of knowledge of the underlying systems as compared to a 'GURU' or 'WIZARD', but often has more interface and application experience and may be able to explain a procedure using shorter words and less (or at least different) technical jargon.
None of them should ever be considered 'anti newby'. but see term 'TROLL' for that special case.

Note: 'TROLL' does not imply that any of the other terms apply, it is an independent characteristic.

A term related to but less destructive than 'TROLL" is 'BEAR': this is a 'WIZARD', 'Power User', or 'GURU' that is perpetually in a very bad mood but does attempt to help. Possibly in terms that may crush your ego.

For all of these cases and the many that fall somewhere between, it pays to be patient and polite, and consider that they may be acting as a 'BEAR' because they have not been laid (or even had a date) in four or more years.

Wizard? I kind of like that. I would use it to ironically pretend to show respect.

newbiesforever 02-11-2017 01:39 PM

And no, I'm not being mocked at this time. I haven't seen blatant mockery on LQ in years. I'm simply being cynical about this issue. I actually know the difference between "newbie" (sometimes used neutrally) and "noob" (an insult).

273 02-11-2017 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbiesforever (Post 5668989)
And no, I'm not being mocked at this time. I haven't seen blatant mockery on LQ in years. I'm simply being cynical about this issue. I actually know the difference between "newbie" (sometimes used neutrally) and "noob" (an insult).

I actually think of a "newby" as somebody worthy of help and encouragement -- I know that is patronising but I try not to do that.
I actually like being a newby nowadays and find it fun to learn things from others -- I wasn't all that interested in learning a lot of the stuff I had to learn in school but, after that, some cool dudes taught me a little C++ and Java, some chilled-out guy taught me some more "customer service" skills and my current colleagues are trying to teach me how to game (I like Minecraft so far) so being a newby is great :D.

jefro 02-11-2017 09:50 PM

Why do I think this sounds funny? blatant mockery! Maybe Monty Python sort of stuff.

enorbet 02-12-2017 05:48 AM

I have used and probably will use some term referring to rookies as "newbies" or some variation of that term but I try not to use it as a perjorative, and don't mean it as a negative since it seems to me it all balances out. First of all, if one is not a "newb" at something that means you're not stretching, not growing, and becoming rigid and brittle. Both positions have pros and cons. Balance.

"He not busy being born is busy dying" - Bob Dylan.

wpeckham 02-12-2017 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enorbet (Post 5669327)
I have used and probably will use some term referring to rookies as "newbies" or some variation of that term but I try not to use it as a perjorative, and don't mean it as a negative since it seems to me it all balances out. First of all, if one is not a "newb" at something that means you're not stretching, not growing, and becoming rigid and brittle. Both positions have pros and cons. Balance.

"He not busy being born is busy dying" - Bob Dylan.

Anyone paying close attention might note that there is a large group here of varied levels of expertise that do not actually use ANY of these terms unless someone first uses one them to describe themselves.
I know people (and consider myself one) that are wizard level in some areas, and barely above rookie in others. Labels do not help us understand how to formulate questions, or answers. We do not come here to label people, but to get help or to help people. Unless well defined and agreed upon throughout the community, labels on people are not productive. Labels that ARE well defined and agreed upon are ALSO not productive if they cause some of the people encountering them to stop THINKING!

Like a zombie hoard, we are all about the BRAINS! ;-)

sundialsvcs 02-12-2017 06:24 PM

Welcome! LQ is neither PerlMonks nor any of the flavors of StackExchange!

You may have noticed that there is no downvoting here. (People can say that your post was "helpful" to them, but not the other way around.) So, no one can vote you off the island. :)

All that we "oldies" would really ask is that you observe and read the "stickies." Or, I would put it more-or-less like this:
  1. Don't ask homework questions. (Speaking as a part-time college instructor myself ...) "If you are having trouble, then you are not the only person in the classroom who is doing so! Your instructor needs to be 'in the loop,' so that (s)he may achieve both the instructor's goals and yours." Ask your instructor first. Please.
  2. Please do at least a little bit of due diligence. "Google it.™" Don't just spew a console-dump in our general directions and then just throw up your hands. Don't ask us to do your job for you. (And, if you're just "afraid to ask your boss" ... "ask your boss, dammit!" ;))
  3. Give your post a meaningful title, and complete content. (Don't just title it, "Help me pleeuz!") The title attracts our attention, and the post itself gives a complete description both of what you have so-far done and of exactly what question/problem you are facing. Tell us all relevant details. The better you do your "prep work" in presenting your question to us, the faster and more effectively we can (maybe) solve it.
  4. Write for the future, simply because you are! Many years hence, someone may well encounter your post. Make your post a targeted information resource for them. Take the time to give them a careful description of your problem, so that they can know that the problem applies (or, doesn't ...) to them, too.
  5. (therefore ...) Bring closure. "Your future footsteps-follower, many years hence," will only be frustrated by a cryptic follow-up of "I solved it." Having opened your can-of-worms, be sure to close it with a follow-up summary post detailing exactly what you did. And, mark the post as "[SOLVED]" to further identify it as a thread which bears a solution.
  6. Don't be afraid to ask. Like many others, I "volunteer" many hours on this forum every week, precisely to "give" answers even as I "take" knowledge.
  7. Again, welcome! (We mean that.)

newbiesforever 02-14-2017 09:56 AM

It might be helpful if I mention that the post was not a Trojan horse for thinly disguised complaining about LQ. I have for years, as long as I've heard "newbie" and "noob," said to myself "What would I call the opposite of a newbie" or words to that effect, and had just thought of it again.

Whatever my attitude toward rhetorical behavior at LQ, it is only part of my overall reaction to behavior on various discussion forum websites (and certain other types of sites where people display certain attitudes and modes of speech), that has me questioning the the wisdom of the very idea of online discussions. I can't characterize LQ generally with words like "mocking." If I had to describe responses to my posts in one or two words: they would be: unpredictable, totally unpredictable.

newbiesforever 02-14-2017 10:24 AM

I haven't heard of the sites mentioned by Sundial. I don't think I'll have a look.

szboardstretcher 02-14-2017 11:45 AM

The difference between LQ and the stacks is that LQ is a forum and Stack Exchange is a question/answer voting site. LQ is based on discussion - Stacks are based on answers that are perceived as right.

enorbet 02-14-2017 12:21 PM

I am so often reminded that for many online this has largely replaced actual human contact, as usual, both for better and for worse. The "worse" part is that as much as many humans try to ignore or deny it, we are animals and do operate very much on instinct. We are just fortunate enough to have a "manual override". In person we get numerous conscious and subliminal cues often called "body language" which of course is non-existent online with the minor exception of webcam real time coms and that is even reduced data.

It's difficult to use explicit language that is also concise, but we should exert the effort if we want or communications to be properly understood and have the desired effect. Much more important is how we respond to others. Even in person A != A', we don't always get exact meanings but online with nothing but (often badly written) raw text it is just SO EASY to take offense instead of talking it through like gentlemen and the race is on!

Just as in this post it might be misconstrued to imagine I am speaking as if I have it all figured out when that is not the case. I fall prey to miscommunications regularly. This is just a reminder, as much to myself as anyone else, that texting leaves a great deal to the imagination which is probably why it is so popular for flirtation. If you think back to school days I think it is easy to see that real bullies, those that enjoy crushing others, are considerably less than 10% of any population so we all should be less than ready for verbal fisticuffs.

273 02-14-2017 12:32 PM

I think it's tough, also, with computer use and Linux or other "alternative" use to find challenging responses.
I admit I expect that when I have an issue with linux duistro it willbe met with questions and, if I go off the beaten-track, demands for explanaotions.
My best friends and I only get together physically a couple of times or so a year but when we do we sound like we're arguing -- it's just how some people exchange opinions.

sundialsvcs 02-14-2017 12:48 PM

Both of the sites that I referred to support downvotes, and their participants use them very often.

LQ does not.

I scurried away from the Stacks in less than two weeks and vowed never to participate there again. I was involved at PerlMonks for many years but finally gave up on them, too.

You can see for yourself how long I've been hanging around LQ ... (Wow, my 13th-Year Anniversary! Or, thereabouts ...) :eek:

The problem that I have with "downvoting," and with a focus on "voting for against posts, and by extension, their authors," is that this focuses attention very-negatively upon people, and serves as a very powerful counter-incentive to participation in the site at all. I observed posts receiving negative votes within seconds of their having been posted on "the Stacks," sometimes enough to freeze the question – making it unanswerable(!) – before it ever received one single answer. (And, I found nothing at all wrong with the questions that received such an icy treatment.) I couldn't help but wonder what the poor soul who wrote them thought about that, or about a website/community that had just treated him or her in this insufferably rude way.

"If you provide people with the technical means to :jawa: on other people in public places, guess what they do?" :rolleyes:

I also watched a post's score go up, then suddenly go right back down, and I could never see the two counts separately – only their sum. Frankly, I don't care how many people don't think that a post is useful. But it is helpful to know how many people did, especially if I can use this as search-criteria.

"The Stacks" also allow you to edit(!) other people's posts to suit your fancy, and once again that just doesn't sit well with me. How do you know, better than the original author did, what that person "meant" to say? How presumptuous to think that you could say it better. The point of the exchange is not "the poster's particular choice of words." Once again, this is not advancing what should be the true purpose of any such website: to invite questions, and to encourage people to want to write good answers. To make both parties feel free and welcomed to do so, which "any sort of negative feedback does n-o-t do."

I also surmise that they don't have moderators. (Never underestimate the vital importance of a great moderator team ...)

So, very quickly, I said: "To hell with this!" :mad:

LQ provides the ability to say that "you found this post helpful," but not the other way around. I think that's very, very good. It also has moderators who are "on top of their game" every day all day.


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