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Old 04-27-2021, 11:42 AM   #16
business_kid
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Extremophiles are one thing, but basic necessities for regenerating soil are another (e.g. soil bugs, worms, mycelium, etc) and definitely not in the extremophile class. Nasa, imho are speculating, or dreaming. Good for them, because glowing words keeps the budget flowing.

The problem as I see it isn't finding resources (e.g. oxygen, CO2, soil nourishment), but finding an ecosystem. Without that, you'd have to copy/transport one there, which is a whole different ball game.

And we haven't even mentioned UV exposure yet. Things on other planets without our atmosphere will get the sun's unfiltered UV-B & UV-C, which are lethal to all life, but are dispersed or filtered by the Ozone layer in the earth's upper atmosphere. Mars with a much lower gravity cannot build a sufficient insulation layer. So UV poisoning is inevitable.

Earth also has the Van Allen Belt, & the Ozone layer to mitigate another source of poisons, sun storms. The Northern & Southern Lights are evidence of the effectiveness at this task of shielding us from solar storms. The Van Allen Belt relies on our earth having a magnetic metal core. Earth is unique in having such a core in this solar system.

And then people laugh at me when I say I think the earth was designed or prepared for life, a viewpoint to which folks are of course entitled. This 'life on Mars' thing makes you realize the cosy place earth actually is for life. Elon Musk was right on one thing: Settlers moving to Mars should reckon on dying there.
 
Old 04-27-2021, 07:00 PM   #17
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The reason, business kid, that people scoff at the idea that the Earth was created by some vast intelligence just for Us, is because it is vastly more likely that we were "created" to suit the Earth. It's a cart before the horse deal. AFAIK there has never existed a lifeform on Earth that, for example, breathed ammonia and ate silicon. The Earth has evolved and all it supports, including Us, did, too.

Nobody can argue with the possibility that such longterm Evolution was "God's Plan" all along because there is no hard evidence For or Against. But Genesis is sheer Mythology from ancient peoples that had barely a clue about the Earth's Nature and History, let alone that of The Universe.. That is absolutely certain.

That said, your points about total Ecology are spot on. It's still worth knowing if any manner of Life ever did exist on Mars and rather important that we find the means in situ to provide some support for Humans.

Last edited by enorbet; 04-27-2021 at 07:03 PM.
 
Old 04-27-2021, 07:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
"NASA has logged another extraterrestrial first on its latest mission to Mars: ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
I admire the engineering achievement. Personally, I find this research rather pointless. It's fuelling scientific dreams, not advancing knowledge. Earth has
  • An Oxygen cycle
  • A Nitrogen cycle
  • A Carbon Dioxide cycle
  • Several Soil Regeneration cycles. All the nourishment taken out of soil is replaced in various ways.

All are necessary to sustain civilization. Growing civilizations, as a general rule, aren't very technically savvy. There's a little oxygen there - so?
So... live past 100 or 1000 years, okay? No? Then think! Maybe while shopping at the superstores?!
If recycling is not worth it why would cleaning our air be? Catastrophic supidity brings catastrophic change, have a mask and a nuke....
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...
There's a mega thread that already proves them perpetual opinions...
https://professorbuzzkill.com/einste...-knowlege-qnq/

Last edited by jamison20000e; 04-27-2021 at 07:55 PM. Reason: added
 
Old 04-27-2021, 09:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Olmy View Post
Erm, I don't think one has to try that in order to conclude that it would certainly fail. It's not quite as silly as trying to plant a tree on the moon, but pretty close.
Jeff told me that everyone said he was going to fail. He laughed.
That was in ?? 83 in Miami. I refer to Bezos.
Terrible fail
 
Old 04-27-2021, 10:21 PM   #20
jamison20000e
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Easy to believe the adage "anything's possible" when infant things are...
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars-exploration/timeline/
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetar...logy_mars.html
https://www.humanmars.net/p/mars-col...-timeline.html
 
Old 04-28-2021, 06:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
But Genesis is sheer Mythology from ancient peoples that had barely a clue about the Earth's Nature and History, let alone that of The Universe. That is absolutely certain.
/Yawn.
Yeah, yeah. Try telling the Jews they are not descended (through his grandson Jacob, aka Israel) from Abraham. While you're at it, tell all the Arab nations they are not descended from Abraham (Through his second wife, Keturah). Oh, wait a minute, you'll also have to break it to Islam of all nationalities that Muhammet is not descended from Abraham through his son Ishmael. See what they have to say (or do) to you.

Now Abraham met Noah's son Shem. Noah himself was the ninth generation down from Adam, and they have the genealogy there with two or three generations overlapping at all times. But don't worry about that yet. I'd like to see you when the Jews & Arabs are through with you.
 
Old 04-28-2021, 08:30 AM   #22
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If you read the, not this topics mega-thread in its entirety but whit the imagination of new dogs. You'd know theories like us coming from few are not as opinionated as r/evolving $torie$.

Mars is not an opinion but what religions to teach are!

Wish I were there now.
 
Old 04-28-2021, 08:42 AM   #23
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"Now, listen to this."

Here is "Genesis Chapter One, sung (in Hebrew ...) as the beautiful poem that it actually is."

Quote:
"And the evening and the morning were the ___ day."
This is what separates the stanzas.

This was a very, very ancient form of poetry ... which existed long before the Hebrew language was invented. And, it is magnificent. Here before us is a thing of purely-human beauty: a poetic recitation of "the Creation," which in my opinion was never intended to be a literal, blow-by-blow account.

It is for this very simple reason that I think that those who look to this opening chapter for "literal interpretation" are callously missing the point. Instead of busying yourself with discussions of "how long 'a day' is" or what-not, just allow yourself to sit back and appreciate this very beautiful thing, and to enjoy it for what it is: "a poetic celebration of God's most-original achievement." Unfortunately for all of us, we will never know the name(s) of the author(s). Only their beauty remains.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 04-28-2021 at 08:52 AM.
 
Old 04-28-2021, 08:51 AM   #24
jamison20000e
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_(...0Roman%20army.
 
Old 04-28-2021, 04:22 PM   #25
ntubski
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Come on guys, The Faith & Religion mega Thread is over that way.

By the way, another article about this: https://www.technologyreview.com/202...-moxie-oxygen/

Quote:
MOXIE was designed to produce about 12 grams of oxygen every hour (roughly the same as what a large tree on Earth produces).
 
Old 04-28-2021, 09:08 PM   #26
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Come on guys, The Faith & Religion mega Thread is over that way.
Agreed, ntubski, we all want some manner of peaceful order in our threads and the rules for Off Topic seem to cover that. I'm actually thankful that Jeremy and the mods aren't overly authoritarian in enforcing that rule and the corollary that we, as adult members, need to police ourselves. IMHO the responses to business-kid are just that, a reminder that the thread topic is clearly Science. Spirituality/Religion are not Science, therefore such comments do not belong here.

That said it was cool to see sundialsvcs pop up and specify the literature side of that off topic remark. (Heya old friend! <wave> )

In this case staying on the Science topic is particularly important since the Perseverance Mission is racking up so many deeply important firsts. The Mars Copter continues to outperform it's design base and holds potent hope that exploration of other worlds won't long be stuck at Conestoga speeds.

The ability to extract Oxygen from the vast quantities of CO2 in the Martian atmosphere is probably even more immediately important. It takes many tons of O2 to provide just simple fuel for any decent sized return vehicle from Mars. Taking it with flights from Earth is just highly impractical. Now there is a way that sidesteps that huge obstacle.

Last edited by enorbet; 04-28-2021 at 09:20 PM.
 
  


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