Moment of silence - World Trade Center and Pentagon
 

I would just like to take a second and send my thoughts out to the people that have died and the people that are risking their lives in the rescue effort. I watched today in stunned silence as all of this unfolded. I just hope that the attacks have ended!

--jeremy

Thanks Jermey.

*****Colonel Panic*****

Re: Moment of silence - World Trade Center and Pentagon
 

Agreed. I've been walking around in sort of a zombie state all day. Having worked in NYC for 8+ years, I'm not looking forward to the fact that I'll probably recognize more than a few of the names of the deceased as the bodies are identified. This is *not* a good day.

:(

moment of silence
 

-

I have to say that what has happened has shocked and terrified me. My thoughts go to all people involved in this, and I pray that justice is done.

I can say that everyone I have meet in Britain has been in mourning, and that this has touched the whole world.

You have our sympathy from Greece too. I'm not good in words espesialy in this kind of situations but when we saw what happened we were socked.
Let's hope that this was the last act of violence

I would also like to add.....
Osama you don't know what the hell u just started!!!! As a member of the United States AirForce......YOUR AZZ IS OURS!!!!!

trusouthrnplaya, please dont start making assumptions about who is behind this. We must have proof of who did it, otherwise we abandon everything we stand for... truth, justice, and compassion.

I am enclosing an article I had sent to me by email that a Canadian newspaper editor wrote about us.

> America: The Good Neighbor.
>
> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
> remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
> television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant
> remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:
>
> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most
> generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
>
> Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out
> of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
> and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
> paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
>
> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who
> propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
> streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
>
> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries
> in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
> tornadoes. Nobody helped.
>
> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars! into
> discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about
> the decadent, warmongering Americans.
>
> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
> erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
> country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
> Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them?
> Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
>
> Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on
> the moon? You talk about Japanese
> technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and
> you get automobiles.
>
> You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon (not
> once, but several times) and safely home again.
>
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are
breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home
to spend here.
>
> When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
> age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad
> and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.
> Both are still broke.
>
> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
> people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced
> to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
> during the San Francisco earthquake.
>
> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
> tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing
> with their flag high. And when they do, they are ent itled to thumb their
> nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope
> Canada is not one of those."
>
> Stand proud, America!
> Wear it proudly!

Here is what I wrote to my friends and co-workers in response to this:

Despite all of my various issues with the united States, I can honestly sit here and say that I am putting my differences aside at this time. My battles can wait for another day.

What I would like to point out, is the editor writes that we will have the right to thumb our nose at everyone else after we come out of this. But you know, I am willing to bet we wont. Why? Because we, despite out faults, sins, and differences are basically good natured, and are willing to help others, whether we receive a thank you or not. We dont expect other countries to help us when we need it. But when they do, we are grateful, and they know it.

We dont do things for other countries because we expect gratitude, but instead because we feel it is the right thing to do. Because we dont look at it from a country perspective, but from a people perspective, and that they are in times of need.

That above all else, is what separates us from most of the world. We are much less greedy and unfeeling than most of them believe.

It is not a flag, song, pledge, or even land borders that makes us who we are. It is instead our ideals, principles, and desire to help others that does. This is what being American is all about. And if we all stick by our values, we will come out of this stronger, determined, and possibly even more helpful to those in need. Because it is our way to share with others that which we hold most dear. Freedom, life, liberty, and justice, for all people in the world.

Just thought I would share this thought, because right now it truely needed to be said.

come on....
 

Come on now......did u not read my post, member of the USAF....do u not think we would no more detailed things than the civilian community, Do u think I would not be here packing my damn bags to the middle east as I reply to this post, as my wife and daughter cry knowin' within the next month I could be added to the list of casualties building from the recent attacks. If I have to spend my time over there away from my family to protect ur azz here....guarantee his azz is ours, even if I had to do it myself!!! All I had was 2 weeks in the military and I would of been makin 80k a year as a system engineer, then he pulls this sh@#!!!! On my damn birthday he pulls this shit, Do u know what that is like? I hate to spill my sh@# like dis; but he just fu@#ed my life up....

Just a note. I *THINK* that stament was written in the early '70s by I guy who died about 15 years ago. Just to give it some context...

Thanks, Jeremy, for keeping this tragedy in front of us as we slowly clear the fog and numbness of the last days and return to our lives. I've been sitting in front of my computer trying to concentrate, yet not wanting to forget, as we must not, what has happened. As individuals, we need to remain calm (this is not a time to condemn Islam, deface mosques, etc.). As a nation, we must first be very sure we have identified the culprit(s) and their supporters, and then take decisive action. Until that time, we need to remember, every single day, those victims and their families.

correct, Gordon Sinclair wrote that after the US was withdrawing from Vietnam.

The orginal can be found here.
http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/schools/rt...e/am_text.html

Good posts, and I as one who feels great sadness for everything appreciate the sentiment and comments of those who have posted.
Funny how a group of Linux geeks like us can come together also... I guess it's not wierd, as we are bonded by nationality and values, etc.. but it does show how we can come together as one people "under God, indivisible.."

I want to side my view with both our Air Force friend and Shadowhacker. Personally, I have a deep desire for revenge. In some ways, it will solve nothing. 2 wrongs don't neccesarily make a right, but at same time, an effective strike and campaign against terrorism can put an end to so much suffering and injustice; it can at least prevent a goodly number of future attacks. I hold the fact that it was an attack on our civilians in condemnation; I find it a violation of ethics and a gutless, extreme act of cowardice. I am personally enraged that someone has the gall to bring thier personal hatred to bear against those who have no involvement. While an all out war against a particular country is far from an ideal method of bringing whatever attacker we confirm to be at fault justice, it would be of great benifit to act in a definate manner, to send the message that America will NOT stand for such injustice on our soil. The fact that this has occured means the message must not be strong enough to those who have done it; it may just indicate that their resolve to bring us what they view as 'justice' is as strong as ours against it....
If we do find a just means to bring military might to those we are certain are responsible for this attack, then I will fully support the initiative. I believe it will be in the name of humanity and justice, as long as the decision is made with inspiration and wisdom, the same principles as our country was founded on.

On another note, what do you all think of our new president? Is he making a good impression with the way he has responded to this event? Personally, I think he is doing good, and feel good standing behind him.

eat it
 

My heart goes out to everybody who was effected by this tragedy in NYC, DC and all around the world. It's a very sad thing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sancho5
[B] I am personally enraged that someone has the gall to bring thier personal hatred to bear against those who have no involvement.

hello........but how many millions of women and children do you think are killed daily by the so called civillised method of 'sanctions' that the west impose on the east?????????

Granted. Our involvement politically has its faults. Be it far from us to *directly* and *intentionally* and *brutally* target civilians in the name of "Islam, justice, and to make a point."

just because sanctions are carried out while you go about your daily business without you ever having to know about the hardships others are facing, dont think for one minute that the people imposing them dont know exactly what they are doing and the misery they are causing. and while we are on the subjet of brutal intentions ive seen israeli soldiers gun down unarmed children in broad daylight......do they get hunted down and brought to justice?......no.....they get supplied more arms and money so they can carry on

Re: eat it
 

Why do you put a link to porn here? I truly think this was inappropiate for the type of thread this is and for this site.

Granted. Like I said, our involvement there is uncalled for.
Moreso though are the terrorists actions.
Anyways, if the Israelis weren't getting arms from our government, someone else in the world would gladly take thier money and do the same. At any rate, the attack on our citizens is a gross pleading for us to swoop in and lay waste... they should have realized that in thier little moment of revenge.

thats just it though, they did it and now they are dead along with 6000 or so other people, but i dont see how bombing the crap out of afghanistan and killing loads more people will help

Re: Re: eat it
 

i agree, not to mention putting me off my breakfast aswell

The reason I see to wage war on the Taliban (not the 'Afghanistanians', as you put it) is to prevent as much of the future attacks on our country as we can. They are rich on resources right now; they have the funding and means to carry on years of terrorist attacks upon us if they so wish. By delivering a message to them that we won't simply stand around and let that happen, we can also take out the bulk of thier military resources, leadership, and backing. No country will want to be discovered funding them in the future once they see the payback the US has in store.
Generally, I don't agree with a violent form of politics, but with as crazy and hellbent as the radical government is over there, it may be best to shut them down.

You know, I've sat here reading these last few posts between Sancho5 and Strawberry and how the subject that the because of sanctions implemented against certain other countries by the west we are somehow to blame for the events of 11 September. Well, I'll tell you this much 1) There are no sanctions against Afghanistan, as a matter of FACT the U.S. is the biggest supplier of food and emergency material to Afghanistan (and the rest of the world for that matter). 2.) We are not just going to go over and slap the Taliban leadership around until they give us bin Laden. We are going to go into Afghanistan surreptitiously and begin to KILL the leadership of the Taliban up to and including bin Laden. And when we've killed the leadership and the other Taliban followers choose new leaders, we'll kill them, and we'll continue in this fashion until they understand that it's not worth dying to be a leader of the Taliban for long enough for the U.S. to find out.
Then we're going to go after Hamas, Hezbollah and the rest of the terrorists. If we have to we'll go after Saddam Hussein himself. Now, speaking of Hussein. I assume that the sanctions being alluded to in this thread is the sanctions against Iraq, which begs the question, do you think Iraq had something to do with 9/11/01? Those sanctions are on the sale of arms to and oil from Iraq. Yes it puts the monetary squeeze on Iraq, the point behind it being that maybe the people will get fed up with not living the good life that they will revolt and remove Saddam from power. We (the U.S.) are still the largest suppliers of food and medical aid to Iraq. So for all those people who want to blame the U.S. for "intervening" remember history. In several of the places we "intervened" we were requested to be there by other countries who were our allies. If we hadn't "intervened" in WW2, we'd all be speaking German and there would be no Jews, Muslims, etc..., If we hadn't "intervened" in Bosnia Muslims would still be killing Muslim. While there "may" have been some gunboat diplomacy done in the past it can still be argued that it was for the security of THIS country. If you don't like the way politicians do things, vote them out of office or run against them. But take it from someone who has lived in some pretty desolate places (Northern Turkey, S. Korea near the DMZ), life in those places would be much MUCH worse without us "intervening". Fortunately we can't speculate how much worse because we're there.

does this mean you will be going after christian sects and cults as well?because they are responsible for a lot of deaths to, what does terrorist mean to you? is it ok to be western and kill lots of people but if your from the middle east then your group automatically becomes terrorist whether youve done anything or not?

the good life??? 4500 babies die every month in iraq and have done for the last 8 years, how do you propose that these impoverished unarmed people overthrow saddam and his army?
half a million children have died ,since the sanctions started up untill 96( which madeline albright stated was acceptable on national tv ) in 8 years the us could find no other solution?

thanks for the insight into war torn countries but ive been to iraq many times as an aid worker and can safely say that i didnt see much in the way of help from the us or any other european country for that matter

lastly i dont mean to rain on your parade but i dont think it will be as simple as you think to flatten all these muslim groups, as its not patriotism or money or glory that drives them, but a very deep belief in their religion, i have seen first hand their mentality.
Russia went into Afghanistan with the same attitude you have and lost.

Russia, as is apparent is not the U.S.A. in several ways. Plus we can take what the Russians learned and apply it to this situation, and as I said we are not going to try to move into Afghanistan, just take out their trash.

I'm glad that you've seen first hand what many Americans haven't. You'll also acknowledge that while you did not see the help from the west getting to the people it's not because it wasn't sent to Iraq, it's that once it gets into the hands of Iraqi authorities it "gets lost".

I don't forgive and place more blame on Clinton and his administration for much of what's happened. Trying to please both sides of the argument did nothing but create animosity and confusion. I'm sorry that those poor people are not eating, but I'm even sorrier that they aren't either leaving the country, dying trying to leave, or dying trying to overthrow the tyranny that leaves them to starve while Saddam builds new palaces and defenses so he can keep his dictatorship. If they won't fight for themselves why should I be asked to fight for them? Besides they don't want us to intervene.

To me a terrorist is anyone (regardless of race, creed, religion, sex etc..) that commits an act which explicitly illicits terror. I don't care what your religion is if you commit an act of terror you should be found out an punished equal to the act you committed.