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Old 12-27-2016, 04:21 AM   #46
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
XP Pro is NOT XP Home! There is a HUGE difference.
Since XP Pro 64 was the last MS product I ever seriously used I am well aware of that. However there still was not a real server version nor did it ever get government certified to my knowledge.

CORRECTION - I just discovered that XP Pro w/ Service Pack 2 did finally get 2 govt. certs in 2005. Prior to 2002 NT 4 had only lower level certs but was tested by the US Navy pending certification. It failed. For a time (2002-2005) Win 2K Pro, Server and Advanced Server had fairly solid govt. certs.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 04:45 AM   #47
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Since XP Pro 64 was the last MS product I ever seriously used I am well aware of that. However there still was not a real server version nor did it ever get government certified to my knowledge.
The "server" version of Windows XP was called "Windows Server 2003."
 
Old 12-27-2016, 11:18 AM   #48
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Just an FYI, IBM stopped supporting OS/2 over 10 year ago.
And yet, as I was wandering through backroads towns just last week, I saw an ATM machine that was stuck on an OS/2 Presentation Manager(!) error-screen!

Remember: "computer software does not 'wear out.' Therefore, it also does not 'die.'"

Microsoft (and, for that matter, various Linux distro vendors) published software which ... just for example ... "banks, hospitals, hardware-vendors, governments, and armies and navies(!)" relied on.

Is it therefore possible for them, now, to just say, "hey, it's been fun ... see ya!" Uhh, (Hell...) N-O."

On the other hand, "can they now require you to pay for it?" Indeed, yes.

In fact, in the "mainframe and otherwise big-iron world," it is quite routine to require a customer to continue(!) to pay ... and it is understood to be "indefinitely(!!)" ... for what is called "maintenance."

Both parties understand that the customer expects and requires an indefinite business relationship. Through a "maintenance" contract, which the vendor uniformly imposes upon all of its customers, every customer pays a pro rata share of the vendor's costs and fair profits.

- - -
I would quite-candidly observe that "way too many" dot-bomb startups ... "way too many" 'app' and 'game' vendors ... even to this day ... have still failed to recognize the business value of this logic. (And this is precisely why they "bomb(ed)," oh-by-the-by leaving their customers(!!!) completely scro-o-o-ood in the lurch!)

(Full disclosure ...) Did I "completely learn this lesson?" Not quite. Because of the particular nature of the software product that lately made the most money for me, I'm still reminded of just how widely-used "1990's technologies" still are. (What? You're kidding me. Really?!) Nevertheless, and though I today stand to make no further money for it (unless I can dream-up something new ... stay tuned ...), I still jump to support our c-u-s-t-o-m-e-r!"

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 12-27-2016 at 11:31 AM.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:35 PM   #49
enorbet
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I don't doubt that many OS/2 installations still exist. In fact I have v 4.1 WSeB on this very 64 bit PC, new just 3 years ago (2014). It has a few updated drivers from eComStation but then that was always IBMs difficulty... hardware support after the PC explosion. I learned to write Assembly with an eye on making my own device drivers only to find that, oddly, device drivers were more difficult than learning Assembly. IBM, or rather large parts of it, wanted to shut OS/2 down 10 years before they finally did because of the outcry from Hospitals, Air Traffic Controllers, Banks and the like. When millions of dollars per minute and/or lives are at stake, one wants something worthy of trust, lest BSODs become literal.. It was my favorite system for decades and still I wish it had continued.. Perhaps the old cliche that if IBM bought out the best Sushi company in the world they would market it as "raw, dead fish" has some truth in it.

FWIW IBM's subscription policy was a vastly better bang for buck than Microsoft's. For years after v. 4.1 was released and sold, free service packs, massively greater than even some costly MS version changes (let alone service updates) , were still being made for v 2.0, Version 3, commonly known as OS/2 Warp 3, had ~30 such free service packs. Additionally community driven software was larger than the Linux analog until roughly 2007. Some professional Partition Managers still recognize NTFS as HPFS from which it was "derived". In fact the successful shell game that MS pulled off (for a second time!) to keep essentially all of the best parts of OS/2 was a large part of the embarrassment and disaffection within IBM. But then Billy was always better at Glitz and Glamour.
 
Old 01-01-2017, 08:24 AM   #50
ondoho
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um, back to the royal submarines:
i suppose that's a closed system, no network access, and the missiles aren't launched via bletooth or wifi, but a solid cable connection.
right?
(i might be wrong)
in that case, i don't see why win xp would be a problem - quite the opposite - why require a newer windows version that just eats resources for a "user-friendly" UI?
 
Old 01-01-2017, 09:05 AM   #51
cwizardone
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Reliability is the biggest problem with anything from microsoft.
I once worked with a younger colleague who, not too many years before, had been a junior officer aboard a U.S. Arleigh Burke-class Aegis-equipped guided missile destroyer.
One day, while at sea, the computer running the propulsion system flashed the 'blue screen of death" and the ship became still in the water. As the propulsion system also ran the air conditioning, charged he batteries for the electrical system, etc., they were in serious trouble. As long as the batteries lasted they were on the phone with the "experts" but couldn't resolve the problem. They drifted for three days before another ship could reach them and toll them into port.

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-03-2017 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Typo.
 
Old 01-01-2017, 11:12 AM   #52
enorbet
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The exact reason for my tangential posts on OS/2 was to point out the difference between design imperatives of serious software, like IBM, and commercial software of glitz and glamor for the general public, like Microsoft. Specifically I mentioned that the major reason for the rift between the two companies over the OS/2 project was that MS management demanded that some apps be allowed direct access to hardware instead of a fully pre-emptive system like OS/2 and any mission critical OpSys.

Windows XP was noted for setting records for fewer bugs per kloc but it inherited most of that from Win 2K, possibly the most serious, stripped down, high quality OpSys MS ever made. XP was substantially less reliable than Win 2K due to compromises MS deemed worthwhile for home users. Even XP Pro 64 which could have been superb, was hindered by licensing agreements that disallowed full 64 bit ram addressing and limited it to 4GB.

The only wisdom in choosing an MS product for a mission critical application like Naval vessels is that MS is still around to service it albeit at a stiff cost. I predict a move to a Linux-based OpSys as soon as they can get out from under. More than one armed forces establishment has already experimented with Linux. for example major investments in PS/2 and PS/3 clustered supercomputers.
 
Old 01-01-2017, 12:09 PM   #53
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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One of the reasons MS Software IS used is because so many people use the home systems which tends to use the same core software that critical systems use. The thinking behind it is that if millions of idiotic users haven't broken it then there is less of a chance that it will break in mission critical use.
This is a well known technique in any tester's arsenal.
 
Old 01-03-2017, 05:06 AM   #54
ondoho
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enemy missile approaches - wait, i only have to finish reading this man page - booom!

...as opposed to:

enemy missile approaches - i click here, then there, and the mouse cursor changes to an hour glass - booom!

...hm, something is wrong in both scenarios.
 
Old 01-03-2017, 07:24 AM   #55
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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Far better than

Oh! it was a seagull was it? Shame about the Nuclear Winter!
 
Old 01-03-2017, 12:52 PM   #56
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Redundant system? Not!

I worked for a government agency who, when they upgraded the computer system, told the employees that the days of work coming to a halt when the "central site" computer system went down was over. The higher ups told us that they had placed a backup system somewhere in Texas and that if the D.C. site went down Texas would automatically come on line and everything would continue with no interruption.

Sounded good, never worked while I was at the agency.
 
Old 01-03-2017, 01:49 PM   #57
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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The problem with back-up an emergency systems is that no company is ever prepared to allow them to be properly tested - so they fail.

One of the funniest occurances I have ever seen was at a company that had two of their own backup generators and during that Winter when there were regular power cuts they hired two more that stood on the car park.
All of them were fired up every couple of days for 20 minutes or so to keep the diesels healthy. On the day that the power actually failed, none of them started up and there was a huge panic until someone went out and pressed the starters.
It wasn't until the enquiry later that day that it was discovered that the automatic switch gear that detects the power failure and starts the generators was powered directly by - the mains plug on the wall.

I was much in demand that day since only the computer block was supplied by those generators and we were in offices that were in portacabins in the other car park. I was the only person who had a laptop connected to the network so while the battery lasted it was the only means of fixing problems on the country wide network - and, of course the phones still worked.
 
Old 01-03-2017, 04:52 PM   #58
cynwulf
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These troll threads are always a hit...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
XP Pro is NOT XP Home! There is a HUGE difference.
Yes home is crippled, but the underlying OS is the same. It's mostly a case of a different licence and well, stuff just being left out...
 
Old 01-03-2017, 08:08 PM   #59
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Or hid... f that!
 
Old 01-04-2017, 06:16 AM   #60
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Are all versions of Linux the same? By your definition they are!
 
  


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