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Old 12-08-2002, 11:01 AM   #1
qanopus
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microsoft helping US to spy?


Microsoft has an nearly compete monopoly on desktop computers all over the world. We know the US government likes to keep track on all kinds of things going around because of commercial interests (see the Echelon project) and because of "national security"
Do you think it's possible that Microsoft is helping agencies like the CIA, FBI and NSA to spy. Microsoft could do this by making back doors in the products. Microsoft would intern be backed be the US government.
This is just a thought, I did'nt read any thing on the Internet about it. But it doesn't sound to far fetched right?

Last edited by qanopus; 12-08-2002 at 11:02 AM.
 
Old 12-08-2002, 12:12 PM   #2
TheCoffeeMug
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Red face

They probably do it all the time.

MS could also just spy to make more money, for example they could record all the songs that you listen to with Media Player. This is valuable information can then be sold to the music companies for millions. The music companies use this information to produce music that people listen to.
 
Old 12-08-2002, 12:37 PM   #3
unSpawn
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Even tho the idea is entertaining I don't think so.
Let's see if I can come up with some arguments (subjective to opinion):

1. Cooperation, integrity. An agency who pulls of such a stunt would need M$' consent and cooperation.
On the M$ code side this could have repercussions on SW like degradation of performance and introduction of more bugs. (Which as we all assume isn't really an issue at M$).
On the agency side this would mean they would need to share information on one of their ops with M$. Given the way agencies like (or deal with) prying eyes over their shoulders plus the information integrity posture of M$ (picture a sieve), hmm I don't think so.
2. Business. Once the word is out I don't think foreign companies, goverments or for instance insurance, health, and trading verticals will take this the right way. Many states are willing to share info between agencies and all, but this way? Let's bet not.
OTOH, if it went that way and M$ was exposed, then they should be able to dump all their products and redirect their unfathomable energy at the Xbox project. Suddenly the world has been relieved of IIS/MSO/MSIE and other bugware, and all will be well :-]
3. Targets. Who are their targets? Anyone sane enough should not use M$ desktop products when their business produces, or relies on, information that's not public consumption, has other covert aspects or doesn't like to be tracked otherwise (M$O uid's anyone?).
4. ROI. Ok, lame and laughable, but I don't see agencies investing in such a scheme would get any return on investment the way M$ handles it's products :-]

*The other way around, like for "protecting" foreign business, businesses rely on the goverment and it's agencies to provide them with gory details (read "unlawfull evidence") on for instance how to win a bid (read bribe).
For the USA and France this has been publicly proven.

Last edited by unSpawn; 12-08-2002 at 12:39 PM.
 
Old 12-08-2002, 01:18 PM   #4
jamaso
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quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you think it's possible that Microsoft is helping agencies like the CIA, FBI and NSA to spy."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

of course , and the whole rest of the world too ...
 
Old 12-08-2002, 02:13 PM   #5
XavierP
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Bearing in mind that all M$ products work very badly, why would any government rely on them for information.

I can see it now: Bill Gates says that M$ say we attack Ireland. Or is that Iraq......?
 
Old 12-08-2002, 02:14 PM   #6
KnightAbel
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I just hate M$... so sure, why not. we all know there is spyware in the OS anyway.
 
Old 12-08-2002, 02:44 PM   #7
qanopus
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I think MS makes such bad products not because they are incapable of making good ones, but because they don't care about making better stuff. Why should they, if they are making money out of it.
The government could put pressure on MS to make the bits that do the spying work better then the rest.
But I do think that unSpawn has a point when he say's that MS could represent a security hole to intelligence agencies. But that doesn't make a cooperation between MS and the government unthinkable.
And yes, if MS were doing this and it would some how leek out, both the US government and MS would be in deep trouble. But then the US goverment is quite capable of keeping things a secret. Hell they can make 50 ft aircrafts fly right over western Europe with someone noticing it, and making it without someone "outside" knowing about it.
 
Old 12-08-2002, 03:48 PM   #8
isajera
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Quote:
Originally posted by schatoor
And yes, if MS were doing this and it would some how leek out, both the US government and MS would be in deep trouble. But then the US goverment is quite capable of keeping things a secret. Hell they can make 50 ft aircrafts fly right over western Europe with someone noticing it, and making it without someone "outside" knowing about it.
i always find government conspiracy theories to be a good laugh... anyone who's ever worked for a bureacracy should know how inept, inefficient and incapable even the small ones are. the thought that they'd be capable of anything more intelligent than ordering a $2000 toilet seat is laughable.
 
Old 12-18-2002, 07:22 PM   #9
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The idea of MSoft&Billy Gates being somehow "operatives" or "Co-operatives" with the Govt. is ridicoulous with all the known Bugs in their products.
Actually , ONE Main reason for a LOT of Animosity against GATES &CO. is the fact that he DID NOT contribute PAC or CAMPAIGN money towards LIBERAL "democratic" causes during the Years of CLINTON "slick Willie" stay in The White House . This was Verified on a Interview show by The Radio Show Host Bob Grant (formerly of WABC NYC , One smart Pit bull of a Radio Host.

Gates is hardly the blame for an "EvilEmpire" he may be greedy and narcissistic ,but he gave everyone a chance to use a computer, without having to be a C++ or Cobol programmer to understand it . Read on, Listen on, explore your choices of Media, it ain,t all in the Daily Blow!@!!!!
 
Old 12-19-2002, 04:23 AM   #10
qanopus
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Every body keeps saying that MS is making way to buggy software to contain any spyware. But we know for a fact that windows is trying to connect to other networks witthout the user knowing about it. It might not be any gov. network but the network of MS it's self or a network of some company. I experianced it first hand. A few day's ago, I was at a friends house and we were doing stuff on the internet when suddely a message from the firewall comes up and tells that windows (kernel32) is trying to connect to another website. A few minutes later, we get a similer message. I quickly made screenshot of this message and will try to put a link to this screenshot in one of my future messages.
My piont is this, if windows can connect to all kinds of other machines, they, in priciple, should also be able to connect to any of the agencies I mentiond earlier. But ofcource this time, they will have to do it withought being caught by the firewall.
 
Old 12-19-2002, 07:04 AM   #11
Nelleh
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Quote:
Do you think it's possible that Microsoft is helping agencies like the CIA, FBI and NSA to spy.
Its not like "we", the users, make it especially hard for them now is it? 100% of the emails I receive from other people, both business and personal are sent plain text.

Look at the crap like gator, I consider myself reasonably savvy when it comes to the online world and I still mananged to install Gator, something I only discovered when I started getting popup ads coming up (not only was I crap enough to let it install with Divx, I must also have been stupid enough to grant it permission to go through the firewall ).

As for whether MS help US security agencies, I dont doubt it. I can think of a few UK companies that have departments specifically set up to help the UK equivalents "spy" on people.

(not that I am reading Cryptonomicon again or anything )
 
Old 12-19-2002, 11:31 AM   #12
qanopus
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"I can think of a few UK companies that have departments specifically set up to help the UK equivalents "spy" on people."

Wow, realy? Can you suggest me some reading no the subject?
What companies are we talking about?
And what is with this Gator stuff. I did a quick google search and I gather they have made somthing that pop's up advertising ads while you are on the net. That sucks.
 
Old 12-19-2002, 11:37 AM   #13
XavierP
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Gator is horrible, horrible spyware - if any of you are running Windows I would say get an up to date virus guard, get a firewall (hard or software) and get something like Ad-Aware and Spybot-Search and Destroy.

On the other hand, Cryptonomicon is an excellent book - as are all the others by Neal Stephenson.

So, not all bad news then!
 
Old 12-19-2002, 02:24 PM   #14
qanopus
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No thank god not ! Say, that is this book Cryptonomicon? It sounds interesting.
O and , "If I've been helpful, please click the Affero button. If I haven't, please click it anyway.....the prizes are rather good!"

thats funny
 
Old 12-19-2002, 03:34 PM   #15
XavierP
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hehehehe - first Stephenson I read was "The Diamond Age, or A Young Lady's First Primer". If you really want to feel paranoid forget trashing M$ (who are, really, amateurs) and pick up one of Neal Stephenson's books....he's really big on interconnecting little conspiracies.
 
  


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