Chris, my father died of suicide when I was eight. I've had two attempts myself (last was 13 years ago) But I don't claim to know what it's like for members of the military to lose colleague after colleague to suicide. It's gotta be tough, to say the least.

Even among civilians, many still view depression or suicide as acts of cowardice, or a weakness. But I think they are in the minority now.

But I suspect for those in the military, when they have been trained to ignore pain and show no weakness, it must be five times harder to change the thinking, to realize it's not a weakness, it's a sign that some healing needs to be done, that humans are not machines and sometimes need to be vulnerable in expressing how they feel and asking for help. As I said, to do that for many "civilians" is difficult, but it must be so much harder for a soldier trained for combat. We do hear about it in the news from time to time (the "soldier mentality that prevents them from getting help), but of course the reality is always much darker than a statistic.

My Uncle served in the Army during Vietnam (Rangers '68,69), my grandfather served in World War II (Navy). I can't speak about their personal experience, but I can say that I do have respect for what Veterans do and I believe they should be entitled to top-notch health care.

As for what treatment is like these day,s that's up for debate. Some was covered in this thread. From what I can tell from all the mental health-related blogs that have sprung up in recent years, getting quality mental health care can be quite a challenge and far too much emphasis is still placed on the psych drugs. They can be effective, but without proper non-drug treatment they fall far short of helping people recover.

And there is still quite a bit of controversy over their efficacy versus risks. I remember in 2008 in TIME an article by Mark Thompson that said antidepressants were going to be used to help treat deployed veterans (It was the cover story actually: America's Medicated Army). Meaning the vets would stay in-theater, but be given SSRI medication to help deal with combat-related stress. This struck me as a very bad idea. Particularly at the time, just a few years after black box warnings were added to SSRI and SNRI medications.

Some say it "only" raises suicide risk by 1% but I believe that's only in clinical trials. The sad truth, as I know it, is that in the real world the amount of data collected by doctors treating patients after drug approval is pitiful. To the best of my knowledge, doctors aren't required to submit data to an central body so post-clinical trial data can be analyzed properly. so what happens in the meantime? Anecdotal evidence is dismissed as being non-scientific and people who speak against medication are labelled as Scientologists and nutjobs. 1% maybe, but if a patient being treated for depression and suicidal thoughts commits suicide after starting treatment... does anyone raise an eyebrow? Is there any way to determine if the med played a role? No, in most case it's chalked up as a suicide and added to suicide statistics.

I don't mean to repeat myself, some of this I've already mentioned earlier in this thread, but wanted to summarize a bit.

As for drugging the military, I haven't read any follow-up info on how well that "treatment" method worked. But I don't always follow the news either.

This forum might be helpful to you or your colleagues:

Hadit.com Veteran to Veteran LLC
Veteran’s Crisis Line

This guy is stationed in Germany, too. You and Lance might have something to talk about.
http://mordfilm.wordpress.com/

This guy's a doctor who appears to focus on treatment without meds, and he's got resources on his site for clinicians and the general public/patients:

The website of David D. Burns, MD
http://feelinggood.com/

Let me know if you'd like any other reading material, Chris. I wish the best to you and yours.

I decided to try another therapist. So far, so good, after five weekly sessions. He specializes in DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy). It seems like a pretty good approach. He hasn't recommended I get on medication yet. He suggested I join his DBT group, which I did. I've attended two group sessions so far, a "skills-based" group, that so far seems like it'll work well for me.

That's good to hear. There are many different types of therapies, and how well they work is on an individual basis.

I am sincerely happy for you too. Good luck.

Keep on keepin' on..and congrats

Andy, the fact that you recognize the problem and are, yourself, seeking help to deal with it effectively ... "is huge." It means that you can survive this thing, beat it, and continue with your own [much better ...] life.

You're able to see it for what it is ... a disease process, and maybe a reaction to trauma: perhaps physical trauma that you experienced, and of course the emotional trauma of serving in combat at all. We really don't know what makes the human brain "tick," anyway. We have no idea. But we do know that if someone who's battling depression does not take it at face value, does not believe those dark and hopeless thoughts but rebels against them, that's likely to be the one that survives it.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you, as you fight this ... this, perhaps the most terrible and insidious and heartless enemy that you have ever faced. You will face it. And, you will beat it.

Right, can't really vote because I've never been treated for any mental health issues. Not that everyone doesn't have social issues throughout the course of their life.

I don't call it coincidence at all, the world is so drug heavy it's ... inappropriate IMHO. I fully get that medication may help some people. However I do believe that in the large part of the cases, it should be a near placebo and should be considered a temporary solution. In short, the large main of social depressed people should actually have good counseling and be guided to a point where they can self help their selves. Instead therapists prescribe rapidly and when things don't improve, they swap out meds, increase them, decrease them, and the cycle continues. I see this a lot in friends and family members.

I do understand that there are persons who absolutely need treatment and support on a lifelong basis. I just honestly don't feel the numbers are as high as the amount of people who end up going on some form of psychology based medications.

Thank you, everyone.

@nmistler: a lot of people, including myself, have similar views. Thanks for expressing them.

I disagree, it is more like the US is so drug heavy. I can't think of any other country that can even come close to the number of prescriptions and drug advertisements. In fact I can't even think of other countries that even advertise meds so openly and frequently if at all.

I don't think though I can offer a clear perspective, since I found myself now on prescription meds, but to be fair I was really in a downward spiral. However meds alone should not be the only method in treating said ailment , such as clinical depression. A combination of therapy like CBT (Cognitive Behavioral therapy) or other types should at least be considered. To me meds are to be used as something either to supplement or in very bad cases to stabilise the patient in question.

The problem is that certain meds are too quickly prescribed, and whats worse are prescribed for 'off label' use, meaning prescribed in use for things that the drug was originally intended for. Nevermind the big business it is to sell these meds. Again I can only think of the US where pharmaceutical companies have literal free reign in targeting doctors, nevermind the ads on tv alone.

At the risk of further derailing this thread though, I'll just end by leaving this here, where I believe sums up the issue perfectly.

Yeah, I agree with all that, and I watch the show regularly. The blame for it falls mainly upon Big Pharma, but doctors and people are partly to blame too. Doctors should not be so quick to bow down before the mafia-like Big Pharma, and I'm sure many refuse to be swayed by their tactics. People should fight against Big Pharma turning them into legal drug addicts. I hope things change in the future for the better, I'll do my part.

Kevin Breel: Confessions of a depressed comic (from ted.com)

Here's what I think:
Every single human being is capable of doing something that they should do, in order to make all of us better people. Every single human being has a potential, that nobody else has.
There is only one YOU. You are HERE on this planet (maybe even in the whole universe). YOU are HERE, NOW. There probbly won't every be anyone like you again in the future. Even if there will, it's not NOW. So the only question is: what will you do while you're here?
So I think it boils down to finding, what you really care about, and doing it, because nobody else can do it better than you - you have a unique perspective.

@Jeebizz: IMHO, I don't think there's any danger of this thread becoming "derailed."

Interesting piece by the Citizen's Commission on Human Rights (CCHR)

Psycho-Pharma Front Groups
http://www.cchrint.org/issues/psycho...-front-groups/

They also have a cool RSS feed: http://www.cchrint.org/feed/

And for those particularly interested in Veterans' issues:

Behind the Epidemic of Military Suicides
http://www.cchrint.org/issues/the-hidden-enemy/

Talking about medications, a couple of weeks ago, under the directions of my doctor, I stopped taking the anti-psychotic drug I had been taking for years. (It was prescribed off-label for anxiety and depression).

So far so good. Haven't had major withdrawal symptoms and I actually feel my mood has improved. Never liked that drug since it made me feel numb and foggy and less me, as if I didn't care about anything and didn't enjoy life. Pretty boring.

If I ever have to be medicated again for some reason, I'll make sure not to take anti-psychotics.

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience. Hope everything goes well for you guys.

I was initially prescribed 'seroquel' (not sure of the spelling) but that is essentially an anti-psychotic, when all this shit happened last year, it was for sleep disturbances/insomnia but I never touched it -- and I'm glad I didn't! There is a big difference between a doctor and a psychiatrist and I find it most disturbing that doctors can prescribe meds for off-label use without taking any considerations of alternative meds, and nobody knows the long-term effects either. I think they perhaps need to re-affirm their Hippocratic Oath.

For me a combo of amitriptyline and sertaline seemed to work for getting me through my clinical depression, and I am at least off the amitriptyline, which is an older antidepressant and quite effective, but unfortunate side-effect is a huge spike in weight gain. Still on Sertaline and doing fine. And For sleep I have 'Remeron' , but only downside is the night-time munchies which only contributes to weight, but thats going at a lower dose soon too.

I am not in any hurry to be off my meds by any means, the gradual lowering is obviously the way to go. Rarely a med should be stopped abruptly and only under direction.

Yes, IMO anti-psychotics should be prescribed for what they're meant for -- psychotic episodes. I respect my psychiatrist and I don't deny the fact that the aripiprazole (that's the name of the medication) helped me for some time, when I was having too much anxiety, but I don't think I should have taken it for so long. I feel that a part of me has been idle for a long time and now it's slowly waking up.

BTW, also took sertraline for some time and I think it's the medication that worked the best for me.

You're right not hurrying to stop the medications. They were probably prescribed for a reason and you should stop them only when you and your psychiatrist consider it's the right time to do so.