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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2004, 08:25 PM   #1441
NOWIN
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The scatter of dust that covers the world is known only to those who have studied its composition. To anyone else it's an inconvienience as consolidating the components into a single pile takes more than a quick sweep of the floorboards.

Last edited by NOWIN; 04-29-2004 at 08:31 PM.
 
Old 04-29-2004, 08:37 PM   #1442
Bruce Hill
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Well said, friend. In doing so with *nix, it's quite pleasing. Just wish I had more time to study it...
 
Old 05-27-2004, 10:35 PM   #1443
tsachi
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This thread seems to diverge toward the advantages and disadvantages of a certain OS... Going back to the original question, I think there is definitely room to improve the install process. I recently decided to give Linux a try, and installed Debian. I know it's not the most user friendly version, but there's a lot that can be done to improve the installation process. In particular, support for plug and play devices should be introduced. Why not have the option of a system scan as part of the install? It's could be an option, you can still change settings if you don't like what was found. I ended up spending a few hours to try and get both the mouse and the video card defined properly for a GUI to work.
There were a lot of comments about "people who don't want to think", I disagree with that analysis. Most people who try to install Linux themselves are willing to spend some time learning it, they just don't want to read a 500 page book just for installation.
 
Old 05-27-2004, 11:31 PM   #1444
Bruce Hill
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You're right, tsachi, and you'll find the documentation is for the most part very esoteric. Still, it's a ton better than that crap Billy Gates is selling. You want an install that's easy and detects most hardware try Slack.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 12:49 AM   #1445
awtoc123
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I don't agree when it comes to hardware installation REDHAT WS or even Redhat 9 muct be the best, as I have printer - scanner - network card - modem - sound card - video card - and the normal, and duing the install it detected everything and configured it automatic I did not have to do anything, and from my experience with Windoze thet you can not do without installing drivers. that is not teh problem with Linux or atleast not with Redhat 9 > there is other problems, but not detecting and installing new hardware.
Even windoze have install problems with teh shared IRQ which you can not change in Windoze, and somethimes you have confligt.
I agree on one thing that Linux is not as user frendly as Windoze, but when you know your way round Linux it is as easy as Windoze, Linux is not a copy of windoze, therefore you don't click in the same places, which is what I hear from many people.
Linux is different and perhaps a little more complex to understand, as in Windoze you don't need to understand to much, but in Linux you need to understand what goes on, and it is much more stable, and remember NO VIRUS as yet, no reboot, no restart.
A file system which is far better than that of Windoze, I don't even think that Microsoft them self can explain all the DLL's
If you are new to Linux then keep at and you will very fast get it, and then you will never look at Windoze again, well we still have some NT4 work stations ( connected to redhat AS via samba ) which works very well, and no crashes.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 03:04 AM   #1446
cprogrck
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listen the key thing people are missing here is one very important thing a "oem" version o windows xp costs me $100 a version of almost any linux distro cost me $0 (not including a few bucks spend on cdrs). Even if windows is more "user freindly" it's a waste of money. Why spend $100 dollars when I can get a simular and in some cases better item for $0. Another important thing is that linux maybe be a little harder to use than windows but it's far more powerful. See any severs running off of flat windows xp? I don't. Linux? I do.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 04:08 AM   #1447
Bruce Hill
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awtoc123,

Where do you live in this wonderful country? Have you tried Red Flag?
RedHat is so similar to Windoze with all the gui and bloat. It runs slower
than W2K for sure, bout the same as XP.

If a person can't read, I guess they need a gui - but if you can read,
find the cli and the real power...
 
Old 05-28-2004, 07:27 AM   #1448
gco10996
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Quote:
Originally posted by larwana
All I really want is some clear instructions . . .
Amen. IT documentation, as a rule, is usually pretty bad, but what I've seen of Linux "documentation" is, with the rarest of exceptions, positively ABYSMAL.

Again and again in this thread I see phrases like, "willing to learn", "read the . . .", "take the time . . ." , and etc.

I've been learning new stuff more or less constantly since I started in 1974 on one-trick-pony mainframes. I've nothing against cracking open a book or two to lern new things.
But.
If a skilled carpenter was required to know everyhing anout smelting iron ore just to use a blinkin' hammer, he'd probably at least think real hard about finding another line of work.
If I want to lean HOWTO change a flat tire, show me HOWTO change a flat tire, dammit! DON'T waste my time giving me engineering details and theories for internal combustion engines!
Maybe I do want to learn all those esoteric details, and maybe I don't. That's not the point. Right now, I need to know and learn how to accomplish a specific task.

Oh, and a little less anarchy wouldn't hurt, either:

Is it

/bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, usr/local/sbin, or
/we/wanted/to/be/different/so/we're/putting/everything/here/and/not/telling/anyone

You gotta admit, some of this stuff must strike one as arrogantly Byzantine. At least sometimes.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 11:04 AM   #1449
cprogrck
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The latest versions of linux aren't that hard to use. I've had redhat 8 and redhat 9 with no real problems other than sound (hard to fix). In fact linux's only problem is drivers. The reason why windows is easier to configure is that companies write driver for linux. However most of the time they neglect to write any for linux. If linux had good drivers u'd have no problems unless your a complete fool. Any one can use the gnome and kde desktops. The interfaces are just as easy to work with as the windows one. However gco10996 you're missing the point the point is money and power. Linux is so powerful I really don't care how hard it is to use (which isn't that hard). Also note that if not now linux will surpass any other OS because of it's open nature. As more people use linux, linux will get "easier" and well have drivers that work well.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 11:30 AM   #1450
awtoc123
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I fuly agree with cprogrck, excapt for the drive issue, well he is somehow right, I must have been the luckly one, I never had driver problms, infact I never needed drivers, except for HP office Jet then you need to do some fiddling, but again very easy and no problems, Redhat 6 - 7 was not that easy, but 8 & 9 very easy, and for you who want it really easy try SuSE, I can not use it as it does not have any Chinese Input support.

TO: Chinaman, REDHAT 9 ro enterprises for sure are lot faster than Windows 2K anytime,
Try to run Windows2K on 64Mb RAM and it will not even load programmes with 128MB just about with 256 MB it is OK but still slower than REDHAT 9, with XP 128MB it takes days for programmes to load, but 512 MB and P4 2Ghz or more will run sort of OK.
I can get the same or better from REDHAT 9 with P3 700 Mhz and 128MB..
I did try Red Flag and it is also OK, but as I'm not Chinese, and my Chinese reading skills are limited to about 1000 signs, I prefere English, I would just love if Linux could do the same as Windows2K with the Chinese Input from English desktop that would be nice, really nice, this where Linux falls behind in my mind, but before you should get the Dynasoft YCBX input that worked perfect from English desktop, but they stopped developing it so after redhat 8 and KED 3.0 no more.

TO:gco10996

So wher do Windows put everything ? No even Microsoft knows atleast in Lunux we all know where things goes, and if not easy to find out from the forums.
Do you know your DLL's in Windows ? and when yo install programmes in Windows small segments are scattered all over the place, and I doubt very much if there is any body who really knows where it all goes. Now in Linux we all know where it is located.
I can install star office 7 in my home directory, and if I should have to re-install redhat ( which of cause you dont have to ) then it would take 20 Min and Star office 7 would still be there working without any fiddling so would you customized desktop and all short cuts, along with bookmarks, and so on.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 12:06 PM   #1451
donni
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Haven't read most of this so sorry if I break the continuity...


I think that Linux is easy to install, especially the NOBRAINER Mandrake, Redhat and Lindows, that attempt to hide you from what is happening behind flashy GUIs and popups that say "You couldn't possibly want to do THAT!".

So you get your flashy distro installed. You play around, nothing serious. Meanwhile, your computer is running pointless daemons, your hard drive is getting clogged with cruft, which can seriously damage your health - sorry where was I? You probably can't see the boot messages, so if there is anything wrong, or a hanging program causes your system to freeze on boot, you are stuck and have to reinstall JUST like Windows users.

Linux doesn't need to become more glazed over with fresh layers of NOBRAINER hard-wearing gloss - it needs good hardware detection, a stable package system and a couple of sensible people to make frontends to the near-perfect command-line apps that either work, or tell you why, and tell you how to fix the problem. Largely this is already the case, but s often ( < note the disclaimer word "often" ) need teaching that things only don't work because they either made a mistake or haven't googled.
 
Old 05-28-2004, 01:09 PM   #1452
Dirty_Ink
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Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggg, see this is why people are switching to Linux, Three Times i installed these printer drivers on XP, Three, and all three times it has deleted them, or uninstalled them, i use my xp partition to play games and for my mom to use it cuz she doesn't know a lot about computers, she uses it to do her realestate thing, lol she barely knows how to use XP. I think Linux needs more games, for my own selfish reasons lol, an easy to use Distro such as Linspire, tutorials to help those switching over and more hardware and driver support, although i can go and get a printer and check the box out and there is my happy little penguin!
 
Old 05-28-2004, 06:55 PM   #1453
peacebwitchu
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Anarchy???? The FHS explains where to put things in the UNIX filesystem it just leaves some room for minor adjustments and atritist expression. Check it out here.
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
 
Old 05-30-2004, 01:10 AM   #1454
cprogrck
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awtoc123,
driver issues have gotten much better. In fact I just updated redhat to fedora core 2. I Have only one driver problem and that is of course my hp deskjet printer. So, now having used fedora core 2 i withdraw any statements about a lack of good linux drivers. After all not even windows xp has out of the box support for my printer, I had to use an install cd. Nowadays you either have to be incredibly unlucky or totally stupid to not be able to use linux. Now I've even grown accustom to doing thigs the linux way. Think about it. Why should you have to use a program to update specific settings? why not use a simple text editor as found in linux?also by the use of text files to configure it allows for other specific programs(if u want to use them) to be easily made. It also allows for power, such incredible power. When i use windows it feels so limited. However, it's exceptible for someone to say that linux is hard to use(it can be used however). If you wish to do advanced things it takes advanced knowledge. Where as in windows advanced things are overly simplified. Which dose not allow for total customization. Where as in linux you are completely free to change what you wish. I have to say, that linux isn't for everyone. No OS is for everyone. If you don't like it use another OS maybe Mac, sun, or UNIX.
 
Old 05-30-2004, 01:16 AM   #1455
cprogrck
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o and one thig for Dirty_Ink. You know you can play "windows" games, and apps on linux. Wine can do it. Also why is it that none of the video card (mine) has 3d acelleration?
 
  


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