LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
  Search this Thread
Old 02-08-2004, 11:41 AM   #1186
sxa
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49

not to mention there is alway Fedora Core 1..
 
Old 02-08-2004, 04:51 PM   #1187
prophet621
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 130

Rep: Reputation: 15
Linux is a great OS but is not, if ever, for the masses. The average person would not be able to use Linux. For the people who ONLY use the computer for net surfing, e-mail and word-processing Linux will work fine. For the rest who will occasionally want to install software, f*ck Linux..stick to Windows.

Half these people couldn't even tell you what version of Windows they run but they can install just about any software. Double click the .exe or let the CD autorun, click 'next' half a dozen times and you're finished. You MAY get a vb*.dll error for a few apps but that's pretty much it for dependency error.. may get a dotnet also. Also, most software is written for every version of windows with a few exceptions. Even when it's split, it's often 9x,ME or 2K,XP.

Linux software installation is nowhere as easy. Sure some of these people MAY remember what kernel they are running but I wouldn't count on it based on the average computer user. RPMs though MUCH better than they used to be thanks to URPMI and simular apps are still a headache and setting sources can be a real pain.
Debians Apt get is better but still a hassle. Both of which you need to know the name or with a frontend at least have part of the name to even be somewhat effective.
Tarballs, these are either a love em or hate em and NOT for the average user.

Also, when people install something they usually like an icon to show up on the desktop. (This is obvious is you have ever looked at the average users desktop) or at the very least have it added to the start menu. Not in Linux, you just installed something? There is a very good chance you are now on the great software goose chase. Until you really learn Linux the directory structure makes absolutely no sence, instyall something in Windows..look in Program files..self explanitory.


If that wasn't enough to kill it for the average user, let them try to install drivers in Linux. It takes hours of research for some of these drivers. Sure they may need to reboot in Windows after an installation but it's hell of alot easier.

I'm not trying to bash Linux in any way. I myself would love to learn it better but I don't have hours a day to spend configuring, tweaking, and trying to learn all the commands and how it works. Like most users I have a life outside the computer. I work on networks all day, the LAST thing I want to do when I get home is have to work on my own computer.
 
Old 02-08-2004, 05:32 PM   #1188
sxa
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49
First off I would like to say I don't have hours a day to learn linux, and as this year goes by I am finding more and more things that I need to do.. yet ever sense this XMAS I have gotten serious into the Linux project, after several failed attempts into the Red Hat world..

I have started with somthing fairly easy, and that is Fedora Core 1, I have learned installing things with the RPM system, and I soon want to figure out how to Untar the tarballs, and get apps working that way..

I consider myself an above-average computer user, mostly because computers pretty much is a hobby to me.. even know I am not a programmer, I am slowly learning, thanks to these guys over here at LQ, because I must say I have learned a few things from my father, a few things from Jason, K5NEO a ham buddy of mine, but over 50% of my linux knowledge is stuff I have picked up over here at LQ..

I use my computers for Entertainment, and school.. Right now my Fedora machine does just about everything, the only thing I lack right now is getting software for my ATi TV wonder card for linux..

I think everyone runs into problems on their first attempt with linux, and of course with every new release, some of these problems go away, somewhat because of the updates in the installs and such, but mostly because of the learning you get each time to install linux and install apps.

BTW: I don't know what kernal i'm useing, then again I don't care....
 
Old 02-08-2004, 06:25 PM   #1189
witeshark
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Miami FL
Distribution: Mac OS X 10.4.11 Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Posts: 429

Rep: Reputation: 30
I can understand that someone who works on networks all day doesn't wanna dig in and service the home computer. I think that doz attempt to make everything totally doable by Joe anybody had good intentions, but resulted in awful security. Way to many third party apps need to run just to approach near security! But knowing any OS is about attention to detail. I knew my doz systems well. My i86 box is now a Linux box with all but the modem working fine. BTW, in my case, the kernel is 2.4.7-10.
 
Old 02-08-2004, 06:30 PM   #1190
shane25119
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Distribution: Linux Mint XFCE
Posts: 653

Rep: Reputation: 53
i think that if a company such as red hat or even IBM were to come out with a version of linux (god knows Lindows has had some sucess in it) that makes a combination of the red hat RPMs, Debian's apt and Gentoo's emerge we could see many regular users flock to linux. study linux a bit. its a logical conclusion that those of us that are masters at windoze would have become so much more proficient in computers if we had learned from the linux perspective from the get go. windows is the oddball OS, not linux as most of the world would like to believe. and as for your kernel..... its really easy

cd /boot
ls
and there it is

not to hard is it


Last edited by shane25119; 02-08-2004 at 06:32 PM.
 
Old 02-08-2004, 07:33 PM   #1191
sxa
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49
For me I started with the Mac, got into the PC, and now I am getting heavy with Linux.... I think its great for me to know the three mine different Operating Systems.. I have Fedora Core One up and going, I have used Red Hat 7.1, 7.3, and 9... I will soon have slackware 9.1 on my desktop, and when I get my own laptop I will have Mandrake 10.0..

Like I said tho, I am just the average Joe, I am your average 15yr old geek.. I want to take up computers after high school, so for me knowing a lot about computer and different operating systems is a must, yet I find it very fun..

The question in this thread is "Should We Make Linux Easier For The General Public" and the truth is Distros like Red Hat/Fedora and Mandrake are making Linux easier to get going.. Xandros is good, but expensive, and lindows I would not touch with a 10ft pole..

Then again not all "Geeks" are interested in learning Linux, by best friend is a geek, and he does not want linux, he is happy in the windows world.. my other friends are happy with windows..

Here is how I am going to change this, I have offered to set-up a linux box for anyone who has a spare computer, or willing to buy one from me (or get one for free if I have one)

We have around 4-6 old 100Mhz machines that I think would make pretty good Fedora Boxes (correct me if I am wrong, but I think Fedora can run on 486 machines aswell, and still be pretty good, and not all that slow compared to running windows) and we might get some more as time goes by.. maybe some 250Mhz boxes, or even 400Mhz boxes.. that for Windows users are getting out of date and these windows people cannot run Windows XP on them.. well us Linux people can run linux on anything, atleast for surfing the web and word processor..

This will show linux to the general public, and I will continue doing my part.. and maybe one of these day I can get rid of windows 100% myself, and be a role-model to all of the geeks who still use windows..
 
Old 02-08-2004, 09:53 PM   #1192
shane25119
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Distribution: Linux Mint XFCE
Posts: 653

Rep: Reputation: 53
noble aspiration you have there

i have a few geek friends who won't touch linux, idiots

i differ from you freakygeek, computers will not be my career after high school (which ends in less than 4 months) law will be, in an ideal world i do tech law.... someone has to keep the M$'s of this world in line.

i apologize for being a jerk with the comment about the kernel in my last post,

what you propose would work for geeks, but the non-geeks... we need the mainstream flavor of linux for the masses, with the good old 'get your hands dirty' variety for us geeks

btw i was bored today and looking at the lindows page (yes VERY bored) and there was a link to a comparison of various linux distros, the site was seperate from Lindows.org and it seemed to give super high scores to lindows and crap 2 everything else.... heck XP came in second!!!! so i did a WHOIS on this page.... owned by Lindows.............. who woulda thunk......
 
Old 02-08-2004, 10:02 PM   #1193
sxa
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49
You are right, we need lawyers who know about computers, we need doctors who can use computers, these people are going to work with people like me.. as the world becomes more computerized...

Also I have seen www.lindows.com many time, I have not seen Lindows.rog I will have to check that out..
 
Old 02-08-2004, 10:15 PM   #1194
shane25119
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Distribution: Linux Mint XFCE
Posts: 653

Rep: Reputation: 53
sorry it was lindows.COM, just not paying attention at the time of the post
 
Old 02-08-2004, 10:37 PM   #1195
witeshark
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Miami FL
Distribution: Mac OS X 10.4.11 Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Posts: 429

Rep: Reputation: 30
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Freakygeek55
and lindows I would not touch with a 10ft pole.. 100MHz machines that I think would make pretty good Fedora Boxes (correct me if I am wrong, but I think Fedora can run on 486 machines as well,
Right, Linux in trim form will run fine on 100MHz (hell, 486's to!) My first PC (win95) was a P133. Linux can even be convinced to run with little RAM (4Megs!) --I'd never try that though. Right about lindows, it's B/S -- default user is root and password is an option. The ex doz box I'm using to tinker with Linux is a P3 700 w/64megs RAM. But I think that you have a great idea for people to get out of the doz lemming world and try Linux. Now more then ever Linux needs it! What with Red Hat quitting support and this sco crap. I personally think that doz should be set aside for power users who refuse to give up the gaming bit. I mean, I don't have to try Linux, not with my Mac. But I am anyway purely because I think it's important, for fun, for learning, and to break up the doz excessive user share! But that's just my
 
Old 02-09-2004, 05:13 PM   #1196
sxa
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49
@ Shane, I discovered you can go to www.lindows.org and it will take to to lindows.com..

@ Witeshark, even in trim mode you cam run GNOME (slow I am sure, but I bet it can be done) and a web browser, maybe a couple of linux games, and a word processor, the everyday workstation.. thats why I don't get why are school does not get Linux boxes for the keyboarding lab, it would teach to the students, not only typing by linux skills..
 
Old 02-09-2004, 06:25 PM   #1197
witeshark
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Miami FL
Distribution: Mac OS X 10.4.11 Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Posts: 429

Rep: Reputation: 30
@ Freakygeek55 -You're completely right, as usual, I guess it's just yet again another case of people afraid of what they don't know. Imagine if they knew the power of root and permissions!!!
 
Old 02-09-2004, 07:21 PM   #1198
SciYro
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: hopefully not here
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 2,038

Rep: Reputation: 51
dont think root is a bad thing, i use root constantly on my linux laptop (acutaly i didnet intsall the shadow passwrds and now that i wnat to (from source of course) my windows computer wont get it off ftp (and io cant find a http one), i ahvent had problmes in root at all (but then again im usualy just compileing stuff trying to everyhtin working fast, and get what i want)


if the schools would teach linux to the kids then a lot more people would use it cue they would know its there (most people never heard of it), the people that think its too hard can just go stick with "usuer-friendlynes", most programs in there source form have a scripts called "configure" yes the one made by autoconf, made to amke it easy to inall source code, i mean all you have to do is
./configure--prefix=/
make
make install
and most programs work fine, i dont think the problem is that linux is to hard, its that people dont wnat to learn there computer, its realy basic stuff taht should be tought at a young age to kids in schools (schools always claim to be short on money and probly spend thousands on the MS comuters they have, tehy could get like comps for $500 a piece(probly $200 for a old screen for terminal typing tutorials ), put linux on it, and you ahve a prefect comuter for all your student needs, typing, web research, text edit/manipualtion, word prosesing, image creation/manipualtion

so to make any linux OS easyer for general people would be to teach howto use a general linux OS in schools, sence thats a good and perfect place for it to be
 
Old 02-09-2004, 07:30 PM   #1199
witeshark
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Miami FL
Distribution: Mac OS X 10.4.11 Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Posts: 429

Rep: Reputation: 30
SciYro: That's very much what I was thinking. Plus that the teachers can have such secure control allowing no one on as root but themselves.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 01:18 AM   #1200
natalinasmpf
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2003
Distribution: Slackware 9.1
Posts: 309

Rep: Reputation: 30
Yeah. There's an end to all your loopholes because on Windows many programs could bypass permissions (since dll's can bypass the API controls).
 
  


Closed Thread

Tags
cups, guide


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General question while running make "make[2]: *** [main.o] Error 1" matazar42 Linux - Software 3 08-15-2005 12:39 PM
Ethic Question:Do we have an obligation to make our technology easier djgerbavore General 18 03-04-2005 12:10 AM
Make linux easier? bolinux General 43 10-20-2003 10:22 PM
General commands to make an ISO mrsolo Linux - Software 7 10-10-2003 12:42 AM
LQ Population X11 General 32 04-17-2002 09:01 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration