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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-15-2004, 06:39 PM   #961
hollerith
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Europe
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I spent too long trying to configure things I wasn't meant to and couldn't.
If Windows was any good we would not have any Slack.
Bill doesn't live here anymore.
It really is 'My Computer'.
 
Old 01-15-2004, 07:44 PM   #962
IBall
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Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Distribution: Ubuntu, Debian, Various using VMWare
Posts: 2,088

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With regards to a control panel;
For Example, In redhat 9, to adjust network settings:
1) System Settings / Network and SS / Security Level
2) System Tools / Internet Config Wizard and ST / Network Device Control
3) However many command line utilities such as ifconfig, etc
You have to search through many diferent places to change settings if you don't know exactly where they are.

If this was all in a central repository, this would be much better. Similar to the KDE Control Centre, or the Windows Control Panel

From Ian
 
Old 01-16-2004, 05:49 AM   #963
stabile007
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freakygeek55
You may use windows, but do you like it? I mean I love the linux alternative, but I have to have windows for somthing things, that does not mean I like windows, and if I did then I would be one of the fools that king was talking about..
Now hey, Thats not nice :-p
Yes I use Windows and yes I like it. And no I'm not a fool.

Do I use linux? Not really mainly because Im desperate to get the gentoo install to work at the time but I dont know it was more of a novelty then using an OS well at least this was with Redhat. Im trying to seriously get into it which is why I want to use gentoo cause I feel as far as choice comes its the best option.

But you know not all Window users are fools. Thats all Im trying to say. And I see what King was saying. Yes its preinstalled on like every PC> But its like the same thing with Intel chips. Bring someone who knows nothign about PC's into a store and blab about Jiggabytes of space and all that and just mention it has a Pentium 4 and they will buy it. Say it has an AMD Athlon and they will be like "Wtf is that?"

But thats a silly reason to bash it. THere was aneed for an OS to be preinstalled on a computer. No one wanted to go out and buy their own OS and try and figure out how to install it. And if you think about it the idea was actually pretty grand at the time. I mean I remember people talking about linux in books when I was buying my PC back when the Internet expldoed. Like '95-'98 period. And they always showed how it was all command line. And as much as all of you seem to love the command line the average joe would depsise it. Now back to my point way back when MS started this whole think with windows installed on PC's who would you have liked to do it? No one wanted to buy their OS and have to figure out how to install it, no you want to pplug and go. Why do you think the Imac was so popular? It was THE internet computer plug and go. MS took advantage of this saw that they can promote their OS at the time signed some contracts and now people could get their OS preinsta;lled on their system and the system rpice would onyl go up like $100 because the OS is being sold in bulk. And since no one else stepped to the plate MS did. THe only real other solution for the hom euser was Macintosh at the time. And since these compnaies are in it for money (like everything in a capitalistic society) MS held onto the contracts because it earns them a ton of money. It would be stupid to let them go.

If somethign liek Mandrake came preinstalled on all systems no one use anythign but that and then the only choice they would ever make would be wehter or not to use KDE or GNOME. Thats how the mass market is. It also would cause the OS to become naturally easier to use and people would most liekly never use any other Linux OS out there desptie it being available because its beyond their needs.

Bascially you have no reason to bash window users just because you think your better cause you use linux. You sit here and preach about choices and how thats why linux is great. Well this may stun you but a good chunk of window users know about Linux and its their choice not to pursue it. Especially the yougner generation is very aware of Linux. its their chocie wether or not to pursue it and no one elses. So don't bash them because they don't do what you think they should do.

Last edited by stabile007; 01-16-2004 at 08:39 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2004, 05:56 AM   #964
Nemlet
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 5

Rep: Reputation: 0
For me Gnu/Linux is my server and windows is my desktop machine. I shall discuss why.

My server uses relatively common and simple hardware, meaning that compatibality is no real problem. This places it on level ground with all other O/S's. It is slightly more difficuilt to set up apache and everything then it is to do the same on an NT box but I like the fact that after a day or two of settings the server pretty much runs itself with no more input from me required.

For the desktop though its a different story. My desktop PC may have lots of wierd and wonderful hardware on it. The fact that support is more limited on linux makes it a great problem here even before any configuration issues arrise.

I tell a tale about when I first got my Toshiba Portege laptop and decided to wipe win98 off it and put linux on.

Im not a complete novice with linux so the instal was not at all painful for me. Some hardware was setup correctly and it was easy to set the correct keyboard layout and the such.

Then I decieded I wanted to use my USB Flash Disk. I found out that support for this was not built into my kernel. So I would have to recompile it myself. "No problem" I said to myself looking at the clock on the wall. A recompile later I said ahh thats all done. So I had to edit my lilo.conf file and manually copy the kernel image about. It was at this stage where I thought to myself why I had to do these trivial tasks myself. A wizard copying the file over and editing the lilo.conf file would of in no way made it any less powerful but would of saved me time. Keeping in mind I could of then gone and edited it myself after the wizard if I wanted to stay hardcore (therefore nothing lost). I went to look at the other files i would have to edit such as mount point files, config for the USB disk and so forth.

Ok reboot..... damn i've forgotten a few things, might of been framebuffer or something. Anyway this means I would have to do the same thing over again because of one mistake. So instead of going to do it again I said id go back to it and instead decided it try to get my wireless Lan card to work.

I found drivers for the Wlan on some dodgy webpage and downloaded them. But guess what i'd have to recompile the kernel. Then I would have to set it all up myself with the correct values for the network.

At this point I looked at the clock on the wall and realised I had wasted many mnay hours on this. When all i wanted was a laptop for college to type up my notes on and play a few games. I wanted this laptop so I could work on it, not so that I could waste all my time getting it to work.

I formatted and installed XP, the install took 40 minutes which was longer then linux. However when I inserted the USB disk it said detected ad then the disk showed up in my computer. 4 Seconds! Thats all it took for it to work. Then I tried my Wlan. Windows didn't even ask for the CD I got with it and suggested some values to connect to my network which it had located. I clicked OK and I was on the network.

Less then an hour after installing I was able to get some work done. And I had features such as hibernate which are still not built into linux.

Linux is still un-naturally complex, the complexity to use is not where its "Power" comes from. The power comes from having the complex configuration options available! If you want to spend ages recompiling your kernel and setting uber options for your network card then sure you should be able to. But what the hell is wrong with having it automatically do something that works?

I feel I have not lost any value from my usb flash disk from windows configuring it itself. Also I think my network runs optimally without me having spent hours getting it to work.

However the geek inside me keeps a linux partition on my computer just for when I feel like something a little different. But you must keep in mind in business time is money. An expensive copy of Windows actually pays for itself in the time it saves you. Those extra hours getting those PC's configured would of easily payed for the licenses to XP in some circumstances. Easily if you add in training costs.

Last edited by Nemlet; 01-16-2004 at 05:58 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2004, 11:09 AM   #965
camelia
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Deer Park, Texas
Distribution: Red Hat 7.0
Posts: 4

Rep: Reputation: 0
Thumbs up Dai and secure web sites

Hi!
Dai`s idea about using free apps for secure e-commerce is clever in this times.
Reading some CIO`s forums, I found that big companies are thinking about migrating to cheapers plataforms.
My self am working on Redh Hat 7.0, TOmCat, MySql, Java for web apps too.
Like to be in contact, Dai
And ABout this discution about Linux being better / worse than Windows.. well.. lets just get the job done, the faster, the cheaper, the better... =D

Camelia
 
Old 01-16-2004, 11:38 AM   #966
theloneranger
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Houston, Texas
Distribution: Mandrake 9.1
Posts: 12

Rep: Reputation: 0
Don't want to learn linux, just use it for now.. When I get curious about the inner workings of linux, then I will explore the command line. Otherwise, total confusion will be the result.. Not good...
presently, it is a mad hatters dream............

Last edited by theloneranger; 01-16-2004 at 11:45 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2004, 02:37 PM   #967
rmanocha
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Austin,TX
Distribution: Debian SID-->fully content-->Love APT,kernel 2.6.4
Posts: 327

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally posted by Nemlet
For me Gnu/Linux is my server and windows is my desktop machine. I shall discuss why.

My server uses relatively common and simple hardware, meaning that compatibality is no real problem. This places it on level ground with all other O/S's. It is slightly more difficuilt to set up apache and everything then it is to do the same on an NT box but I like the fact that after a day or two of settings the server pretty much runs itself with no more input from me required.

For the desktop though its a different story. My desktop PC may have lots of wierd and wonderful hardware on it. The fact that support is more limited on linux makes it a great problem here even before any configuration issues arrise.

I tell a tale about when I first got my Toshiba Portege laptop and decided to wipe win98 off it and put linux on.

Im not a complete novice with linux so the instal was not at all painful for me. Some hardware was setup correctly and it was easy to set the correct keyboard layout and the such.

Then I decieded I wanted to use my USB Flash Disk. I found out that support for this was not built into my kernel. So I would have to recompile it myself. "No problem" I said to myself looking at the clock on the wall. A recompile later I said ahh thats all done. So I had to edit my lilo.conf file and manually copy the kernel image about. It was at this stage where I thought to myself why I had to do these trivial tasks myself. A wizard copying the file over and editing the lilo.conf file would of in no way made it any less powerful but would of saved me time. Keeping in mind I could of then gone and edited it myself after the wizard if I wanted to stay hardcore (therefore nothing lost). I went to look at the other files i would have to edit such as mount point files, config for the USB disk and so forth.

Ok reboot..... damn i've forgotten a few things, might of been framebuffer or something. Anyway this means I would have to do the same thing over again because of one mistake. So instead of going to do it again I said id go back to it and instead decided it try to get my wireless Lan card to work.

I found drivers for the Wlan on some dodgy webpage and downloaded them. But guess what i'd have to recompile the kernel. Then I would have to set it all up myself with the correct values for the network.

At this point I looked at the clock on the wall and realised I had wasted many mnay hours on this. When all i wanted was a laptop for college to type up my notes on and play a few games. I wanted this laptop so I could work on it, not so that I could waste all my time getting it to work.

I formatted and installed XP, the install took 40 minutes which was longer then linux. However when I inserted the USB disk it said detected ad then the disk showed up in my computer. 4 Seconds! Thats all it took for it to work. Then I tried my Wlan. Windows didn't even ask for the CD I got with it and suggested some values to connect to my network which it had located. I clicked OK and I was on the network.

Less then an hour after installing I was able to get some work done. And I had features such as hibernate which are still not built into linux.

Linux is still un-naturally complex, the complexity to use is not where its "Power" comes from. The power comes from having the complex configuration options available! If you want to spend ages recompiling your kernel and setting uber options for your network card then sure you should be able to. But what the hell is wrong with having it automatically do something that works?

I feel I have not lost any value from my usb flash disk from windows configuring it itself. Also I think my network runs optimally without me having spent hours getting it to work.

However the geek inside me keeps a linux partition on my computer just for when I feel like something a little different. But you must keep in mind in business time is money. An expensive copy of Windows actually pays for itself in the time it saves you. Those extra hours getting those PC's configured would of easily payed for the licenses to XP in some circumstances. Easily if you add in training costs.
you think your usb flash drive not working or your wlan card not working is a fault of linux?think again.it is the vendors who do not provide drivers for these peices of hardware that are to blame.
also recompiling a kernel is completely optional(or maybe distro specific as some distros might not have enabled loadable modules) but never has compiling a krenel taken me hours...even on the slow machine....besdies think of the control it gives you....the power it gives you over your computer....in windows...you put in another wlan card right now...and it will crash...it happened with me...i put in a wlan card into my laptop and then tried a friends card and the thing just halted....and that after i had installed the drivers for the new card....so my friend windows is in no way perfect...infact noweher clse to it....i agree that linux can be painstakinly hard some times....but that happens when you are anewbie...once you have used linux for a couple of months...all such problems go away....you see switching to another OS is never going to be easy....i bet you that if you were born into uing linux and then u started using windows....you would find it hard as hell...for various reasons....so i suggest that you stop bashing linux and actually look at what you can gain out of it vs what you lose....i can assure you the former will outweigh the latter.
 
Old 01-16-2004, 06:12 PM   #968
rsheridan6
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Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Kansas City
Distribution: Debian unstable
Posts: 57

Rep: Reputation: 22
For me, Linux is easier to use because just about anything I want is an "apt-get install anythingiwant" away. With Windows, you have to search the web and download an installer, or install from a cd which invariably has a copy protection key which I always lose (that's why I switched, actually - I lost my Windows CD key), or worse yet, pirate a copy and find a crack. And then you have to restart your computer. Of course, most Linux distros come with most of the software anyone would want.

There are problems, though. 99% of the time stuff just works, but once in awhile you have to have some actual knowledge (almost unheard of in Windows unless you buy grade Z hardware). Getting my digital camera to work required editing my /etc/fstab file, which wasn't a big deal to me but would be for some people. Also, some distros just suck and nothing just works, and you'd get a bad impression of Linux from one of those.

Maybe someday someone will come out with a distribution where everything just works. It's certainly possible.
 
Old 01-16-2004, 08:18 PM   #969
sxa
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Distribution: Mac OS 10.7 / CentOS 6(servers) / xubuntu 13.04
Posts: 1,186

Rep: Reputation: 49
Also in linux getting those things to work is fun.. I just got bored with windows.. I mean I was not learning anything, with linux like I said before I am learning new stuff everyday...
 
Old 01-17-2004, 02:22 AM   #970
r_a_smith3530
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Location: Midwestern USA
Distribution: Ubuntu 10.04
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You know, I was reading through this last page of posts and I just had to comment again. I'm a recent convert to Linux. Right now, I'm sitting in front of four machines, two desktops and two laptops. One of the desktops and one of the laptops are running Mandrake 9.2. The other pair are running Win XP Pro (laptop) and Win2k Pro. I run these machines on a network, along with the kids machines.

I've worked with Windows since the 3.11 days. It has come a long way. It got there due to user demand. I imagine that the same fate is true for Linux future. I work in IT, providing NT desktop and server support for a Fortune 500. I support about 550 users at present. I don't have to take my socks off to count the number of folks I support that I could call "geeks" when it comes to computers. 99% of the folks that I support use their PC as a tool, not much different than the copier or their telephone. They work on a schedule. They would like things to be faster and less complicated. Someone above posted about how long they spent compiling and then recompiling. I build NT4, Win2k and XP machines in 10 minutes or so using Drive Image Pro, and then I spend maybe another 15 minutes configuring domain machine and user accounts, Mail, printer and drive mappings and other miscelaneous software configurations. Thirty minutes and the machine is done, on the network, authenticated to a domain, receiving mail, and personalizations in Word, etc.

The above is the benchmark that Linux needs to strive for. As I said, I'm a newbie in Linuxland, so I don't have all the answers, but, I have built a few machines, and here are a few of my observations. I like laptops, so I went out and bought an IBM ThinkPad 600E as a testbed for Linux. I purchased that model after reading the posts on the Linux-ThinkPad mailing list for several months. It is the small-block Chevy of the Linux-Laptop world. There's been a fair amount of documentation done, and one user, Thomas Hood, has what must be the most thorough documentation I have ever seen for any OS installation on any machine. I picked up this machine at a computer show, and there was a Linuxfest being held at the show. The first time the machine booted in my possession was to load the first of five SuSE 9.0 Pro discs. Win98 was gone, and SuSE 9.0 was in its place.

I like SuSE. It has one of the best GUI system configuration tools out there in YaST2. It also has a neat feature called SCPM. This is to allow the user to go from network to network with minimal changes once set up. Unfortunately, that is its bane. The documentation for this feature is dated and there was not much to be had in the way of help in answering questions about setup from either this forum, the SuSE mailing list, or the Linux-ThinkPad list. I assume that is because not too many folks are using this feature yet. SCPM also took some getting used to. It, like much in the Linux world, was not quickly intuitive. In the end, it was not going to be my laptop OS. That it had no drivers for my USB operated external CD burner meant that it would also not end up on the desktop machine either. With a little attention to detail, and some better hardware support, this will be one killer distro.

Next up to bat was Red Hat 9. Being probably the most well known version of Linux, I figured this one would be a snap. I was wrong. It didn't come out of the box with the nice GUI Network Neighborhood that SuSE came with. I had problems trying to get it to see the other machines on my network. It also didn't want to print to my networked HP LaserJet printer. It was short lived. Red Hat has said that they aren't going to support it for much longer, so I wasn't going to spend much time wiht it.

After RH9, I figured that the logical progression was to try out Fedora Core 1.0. It suffered the same maladies as its older cousin above but I decided to give it a longer test. I found that it has a decent interface for changing network configuration changes, albeit not as automated, but certainly more reliable than SuSE's. Two issues ended my relationship with Fedora Core. One, I could not print. The other was that I could not transfer filesfrom other machines, Win or Lin. I worked with folks from the Linux-ThinkPad list, and form my local LUG trying to resolve this. It never got resolved. I'm sure that it was a security setting somewhere but I found a workaround, pulling my data off from my Linux desktop PC. Oh yes, to Fedora's credit, it would see my CD burner, and using Xcdroat, I burned my first disc under Linux.

My current OS, both on the laptop and the desktop is Mandrake 9.2. It's a nice distro. It came with almost everything that I could ever need, it has Lin Neighborhood, my printer was configured easily, and my CD burner was found during the install. It's a little more difficult to change networks (from home to work), but has a switching wizard that I will have to try. I had a problem early on with Mandrake. There is a bug in the version of RPM that shipped with 9.2, and it loses half of your application menu shortcuts. They have a correction for this on their web site, so once I knew what caused the issue, correcting it was no big deal.

None of the above distors would detect my Fuji digital camera.

I still need Windows. That said, I'm waiting for a set of Debian CDs to come my way (purchased from a nice outfit, I felt they could use my support financially), and these may find their way onto a spare PC at the office.

Linux has got a ways to go for sure, but I don't think that there's anything unsurmountable.

There also will need to be some change within the Linux community. There is, at times, an elitest attitude, left over from Unix. The RTFM attitude that is displayed by some members of the Linux community doesn't help to win converts. This forum is a great example of how the Linux community can overcome that issue.

Oh, and can somebody out there please write a tax program for Linux so I can talk my wife's nephew into using it?

Thanks,

Rob Smith
 
Old 01-17-2004, 04:42 AM   #971
natalinasmpf
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2003
Distribution: Slackware 9.1
Posts: 309

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally posted by Nemlet
For me Gnu/Linux is my server and windows is my desktop machine. I shall discuss why.

My server uses relatively common and simple hardware, meaning that compatibality is no real problem. This places it on level ground with all other O/S's. It is slightly more difficuilt to set up apache and everything then it is to do the same on an NT box but I like the fact that after a day or two of settings the server pretty much runs itself with no more input from me required.

For the desktop though its a different story. My desktop PC may have lots of wierd and wonderful hardware on it. The fact that support is more limited on linux makes it a great problem here even before any configuration issues arrise.

I tell a tale about when I first got my Toshiba Portege laptop and decided to wipe win98 off it and put linux on.

Im not a complete novice with linux so the instal was not at all painful for me. Some hardware was setup correctly and it was easy to set the correct keyboard layout and the such.

Then I decieded I wanted to use my USB Flash Disk. I found out that support for this was not built into my kernel. So I would have to recompile it myself. "No problem" I said to myself looking at the clock on the wall. A recompile later I said ahh thats all done. So I had to edit my lilo.conf file and manually copy the kernel image about. It was at this stage where I thought to myself why I had to do these trivial tasks myself. A wizard copying the file over and editing the lilo.conf file would of in no way made it any less powerful but would of saved me time. Keeping in mind I could of then gone and edited it myself after the wizard if I wanted to stay hardcore (therefore nothing lost). I went to look at the other files i would have to edit such as mount point files, config for the USB disk and so forth.

Ok reboot..... damn i've forgotten a few things, might of been framebuffer or something. Anyway this means I would have to do the same thing over again because of one mistake. So instead of going to do it again I said id go back to it and instead decided it try to get my wireless Lan card to work.

I found drivers for the Wlan on some dodgy webpage and downloaded them. But guess what i'd have to recompile the kernel. Then I would have to set it all up myself with the correct values for the network.

At this point I looked at the clock on the wall and realised I had wasted many mnay hours on this. When all i wanted was a laptop for college to type up my notes on and play a few games. I wanted this laptop so I could work on it, not so that I could waste all my time getting it to work.

I formatted and installed XP, the install took 40 minutes which was longer then linux. However when I inserted the USB disk it said detected ad then the disk showed up in my computer. 4 Seconds! Thats all it took for it to work. Then I tried my Wlan. Windows didn't even ask for the CD I got with it and suggested some values to connect to my network which it had located. I clicked OK and I was on the network.

Less then an hour after installing I was able to get some work done. And I had features such as hibernate which are still not built into linux.

Linux is still un-naturally complex, the complexity to use is not where its "Power" comes from. The power comes from having the complex configuration options available! If you want to spend ages recompiling your kernel and setting uber options for your network card then sure you should be able to. But what the hell is wrong with having it automatically do something that works?

I feel I have not lost any value from my usb flash disk from windows configuring it itself. Also I think my network runs optimally without me having spent hours getting it to work.

However the geek inside me keeps a linux partition on my computer just for when I feel like something a little different. But you must keep in mind in business time is money. An expensive copy of Windows actually pays for itself in the time it saves you. Those extra hours getting those PC's configured would of easily payed for the licenses to XP in some circumstances. Easily if you add in training costs.
There are wizards and stuff for Linux, you just have to find out whats on your computer. Doesn't kernel compiling have "make install" to write to lilo.conf anyway?

I tell you why Windows makes configuration so fast. They'have packed along with auto-configuration of your flash drive, 50,000 other components you won't use, like a http server located at port 5000 and its UDP counterpart at port 1900, and everything else built-in. You can't specify you want it out. What about Windows Messenger Service that allows pop up ads without your permission to appear on your desktop? DCOM (and its exploits?)? ALl these un-needed services were included along with your WLAN configuration because it had a "include everything" policy. Which slows down your computer, gives it leaks and exploits and security loopholes, and wastes resources.

I guess another reason why it might take extra long is because the configuration options aren't just for x86's...they are for Macs, Sparcs, etc. whereas Microsoft has only the intel platform to cater to. And there are programs out there to "autoconfigure" easily and cater to certain specifications (and avoid conflicts), Xconfig and menuconfig are just standard programs included. Many linux distros installtion programs (from the CD) automatically configures your kernel for you.

Oh, if you want, you can give your compilation process a higher priority. And Windows configuration takes a bit longer for me - why? After installation, I have to remove things annoying things I didn't need (what about its dumb inititial "experience the power of Windows! Would you like to take a tour now"? And all it has is "now" or "later" and not "never again!". Then I have to run another program to segregate IE and the shell, try to get some power of MS-DOS back. Then I install all the updates (considering since the CD is NEVER updated when you update) of the past year not included but exploits applying to you (so far 47 updates and 9 reboots because they were "critical" on my last format). Get Mozilla, disable DCOM and Plug and Play (something that causes an http server to be run on 5000 and 1900), get Mozilla (at least Linux is free and not copyright protected - I can modify the ISO as I wish) get nvidia drivers to run BF1942, which weren't included with my hardware drivers. (Did you say autoconfiguration, ha!) Etc. etc. All this after I reformat Windows when viruses and resource eaters and other spyware have wrecked ky Windows partition and registry and a fresh format is needed every half a year. Although Linux comes in handy - I can back up my documents and stuff into my ext3 filesystem!

Also I think its because much of your hardware is narrow mindedly built for Microsoft and the x86 structure, look for stuff thats Unix compatible There are lots, you just have to look in the right place. Which can fit on the x86 anyway, but catered to the Linux kernel.

Oh, I am going to try Linux from scratch soon. It will take quite a while, but after that I know its components by hand, but I will be satisfied I think, especially maintenence and installation since I will be specifying its means.

Last edited by natalinasmpf; 01-17-2004 at 04:45 AM.
 
Old 01-17-2004, 07:59 AM   #972
Nemlet
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 5

Rep: Reputation: 0
I liken it to cars, Windows is like one of those new Audi's that you can't actually get to the engine if you need to. (they have some kind of cover you need a mechanic to remove). Now somebody goes and buys this car because they want to get from A to B. They know how to drive (word process and so forth) and for them it isn't a problem because it "just works".

Linux is like a car which when you buy it brand new you still have to install some parts of the engine yourself, however doing this makes it faster, use less fuel and look nice and unique. You have the option of customizing your car however you please although each time you do it you are gonna have to strip the car down some and build it up again. Now for the car enthusiast this is damn fun, and gives them more street cred between their friends.

On the audi there are more addons available yet they can only be connected one way. This way is perfectly sound for most people although you still cannot add or remove anything to do with the engine.

I'd like a car that was pretty much like your average everyday car. One where when you bought it, it just worked but if you choose to you can open up the bonnet and add whatever you like to the engine. A baby seat would fit instantly without me having to reinstall the chair. But if I wanted to reinstall the chair I would be able to. That quick 15 minute trip would be as easy as in the audi without me having to use 75 controls to get there. However if I decided I wanted the extreme control I could enable all the extra controls.

Basically what im saying is i would prefer linux to be as easy to use as windows but with all the options still there under the hood for the experienced guru to go and find. This makes sense as the guru has to go find things which he is good at and the noob has an easy ride. At current the noobie essentially has more work to do then the experienced user since they have to spend ages reading manuals.

My first post was thought through were this one was done just as I woke up in the morning so im not gonna defend anything i've said here later today when I wake up
 
Old 01-17-2004, 08:08 AM   #973
Nemlet
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 5

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Btw I installed gentoo linux from scratch and have configured all my hardware for it which runs fine. So since gentoo was the hardest install i've gone through (mostly manual) I would no longer class myself as a noobie.

The only real reason I don't use it all the time is my games. Also that small bug with not being able to set which speakers my sound comes out from easily. Although im sure if i applied myself I could fix it in under an hour. Thing is its configured in less then a second in window although lets not concentrate on that.
 
Old 01-17-2004, 08:37 AM   #974
alanbarnard
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Bradford UK
Distribution: Ubuntu Dapper Drake k7-kernel
Posts: 49

Rep: Reputation: 15
When you get a problem with Linux and eventually manage to solve it, you get a feeling of satisfaction together with learning a lot of other things along the way.

When you get a problem with M$ Windows and eventually manage to solve it, you get a feeling of utter frustration together the feeling that you have learned nothing more in the process as everything was hidden from you.
 
Old 01-17-2004, 08:54 AM   #975
stabile007
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Distribution: Ubuntu, Gentoo
Posts: 74

Rep: Reputation: 15
I think the one point some people are trying to push is that your PC for most people is only a tool. You do not want to have fun fixing a problem you don't want a problem.

This is why i think linux comes out as a "geek's" os because only people who enjoy having to spend hours learnign a set of commands to fix a problem usually are the ones who use it. When I get home from work the last thign I want is to have to spend several hours researching stuff on the internet to get something to work (Anyone say nvidia drivers?) I love to play games I want to be able to download drivers and simply install them and usually on windows that works fine I tried that in linux oops wrong kernel version...what do I do now? ok goto forums....try this....nope....try that....nope....um ok goto nvidia's site and try those forums.....try this....try...that damn it work....*give up and install mandrake* yay nivida drivers install.......reboot......where the hell is my screen....its blank noooooooooooooo.....*delete partition with linxu on it*....reboot.....no bootlaoder crap......Windows XP disk...repair....fixmbr.....go abck into windows.......install new nivdia drivers....play bf9142....that only took 3 days of time for me to do between work and home :-p Yes it was fun for the first 3 mintues me unfortuantly it frustrated me more then trying to get my USB2.0 drive to boot up with windows and honestly I feel installing frigging drivers shouldn't be so complicated. Ironically trying to install gentoo has been fun despite the fact it refuses to ever work.
 
  


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