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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2004, 08:22 PM   #931
sfarber53
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I recently installed SuSE Personal 9.0 and found it simple to install and use and I'm new at this. If what you want is web browsing, wp, e-mail and other office type incidentals I can't see how MS can offer anything much easier.

I've also revisited SuSE 7.0 and had the same experience on an old 166Mhz PC I just bought used. Of course my plans for the 7.0 machine is for learning, but I'm using it to post this message and will turn off the X-server when I want it to rock on server services exclusively.

Linux has come a very long way. For my money, anyone that can't find a distro that they can install and use hasn't taken the time to look.

Mr. Gates should be worried. In the server area, Linux is better than anything MS has to offer and the desktop is not far behind.
 
Old 01-13-2004, 08:34 PM   #932
sxa
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Try running a decent MS OS on a 486.. you can listen to music, surf the web, play linux games and such on a old 486...
 
Old 01-13-2004, 08:36 PM   #933
vectordrake
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That was my first concerted effort at GRUB(Mandrake just 'did it' when I used it there). I'm used to LILO, but I thought that I'd learn something else new as well. I don't think its as much the bootloader, as the two drives. I had that trouble once before and I forgot what arguments I passed to the bootloader to get it all running. If I get it figured out first, I'll write it up and post it online and leave the link where all can find it (I really think that needs to be an addendum to the lilo/grub howtos - although I am still poring over stuff about grub)
 
Old 01-13-2004, 09:10 PM   #934
sxa
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GRUB and Lilo Both have messed up my machine at different times, where both times I had to get my fathers help to get things going again...
 
Old 01-13-2004, 09:55 PM   #935
stabile007
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freakygeek55
What bootloader are you using...
I first tried Lilo which utterely failed. and grub which I at least got the splashscreen working :-p Its the only problem so far as I can tell that I have had with the whole gentoo install...And I was doign a stage 1 install maybe I should try a stage 2 but I don't see a big differnece. I just leave y PC on at night when doing the long parts.
 
Old 01-13-2004, 09:59 PM   #936
sxa
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The bootloader worked good with Fedora, but on all my Red Hat installs LILO on 7.1 and 7.3 and GRUB on 9 have caused me problems...
 
Old 01-13-2004, 10:00 PM   #937
stabile007
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Yeah unfortuantly these were the only two the guide mentioned....
 
Old 01-13-2004, 10:07 PM   #938
sfarber53
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I should add to my earlier post that I don't run a double-booted system on either of my Linux machines. I have run double boots with LILO in the past, but never with GRUB so I don't know how it behaves.

To sum up, I'm glad to be M$ free in 2003!

Cheers!
 
Old 01-13-2004, 11:26 PM   #939
SpiritAuthor
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I think this thread is interesting. I've played around with a number of different OSs over the years just because I like choice and hate the status quo. My favorite a few years ago was OS/2. Yes, I said OS/2. I could do a bunch of stuff with it on a poorly equipped 486 and it'd almost never crash. Then I started playing around with Linux.

I had failures. Tried Red Hat 3 years ago and had driver troubles. Tried Suse and that was better but my sound wouldn't work. Driver troubles again. Had trouble with LILO the first time around with a dual boot on Windows NT but then discovered that it really doesn't like NTFS drives one bit. Once I moved over to System Commander (which I had used in the past), things were much better. It required me to learn how to mount LILO on the root partition and all things were fine.

Does Linux have problems? Sure but so did Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, etc.

One thing I learned when I was playing around with OS/2 that I couldn't believe, was that IBM actually gave away the developer's kits FREE, for people to develop drivers for the OS. At the same time, Microsoft was charging not only for the developer's kits, they were also charging for driver certification on EACH test! Yet, people were lining up in the Microsoft camp because they all wanted the same thing - big bucks. One mediocre app on an MS platform could almost insure a ton of sales. On another OS? They might get 1% of what they could with M$. The whole picture was built around greed and not making a better system.

I still use XP when I need to because most of my clients work on files they have built with a MS specific app but I'm primarily using Linux now since 1/1/04 and I find that almost everything I was doing before, I can do now with Linux and much faster with less crashes.

It's all about learning and making things better, which the M$ camp has forgotten. Almost all of the M$ apps out there are painfully huge and even more painfully slow to operate unless you've got a ton of the latest hardware.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
 
Old 01-13-2004, 11:52 PM   #940
witeshark
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okok OK oK OK this is what we have doz BITES and wastes sys resource to about 1/3rd in bad case! Linux rules PC so... TOTAL solution hardware + OS = Mac !! try it i sure as hell am!
 
Old 01-14-2004, 05:12 AM   #941
stabile007
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Quote:
Originally posted by witeshark
okok OK oK OK this is what we have doz BITES and wastes sys resource to about 1/3rd in bad case! Linux rules PC so... TOTAL solution hardware + OS = Mac !! try it i sure as hell am!
Well thats a matter of opinion :-D I personally found the Mac OS the new one to bulky for me to use. I used to use Mac 7.1 then switched to a PC with Windows 98 and yes it crashed liked hell and then moved to Windows XP/2000 and both ran fine for me. Sure they may have a higher resource demand but IMO I have such high specs anyways it doesn't matter and once you load Gnome and Redhat I think the whole system demand argumnt goes out the window cause to me that thing was huge....but then again thats my opinion.

And whats this about choices? I feel I got plenty of choices with windows? I don't care if I have to use their windows manager works fine for me. Though I also like using my Space Monger program from time to time.

Now for the whole driver thing the poster above mentioned I don't think I understand your arguemnet. You first claim that your upset because MS schooses to charge for its Devolper Kits which is their own choice.....IBM chose not too which is their choice. People deicde to go with MS because business-wise it makes perfect sense and since all companies including IBM are in the business of making loads of money then that makes it their choice. I haven't used OS/2 so I will not say how good their driver system is or isn;t and thats amatter of opinion as well but I find that 99% of Windows Drivers run pretty good. So I wouldn't say that going to windows as their platform is exactly hurting them. Of course they go cause thats where the money is but I wouldn't calll it unstable. I mean some people may have had problems with windows but hey people have problems with all OS's since not a single one is crash proof that I have used yet....then again my PC usually can crash anything.

Last edited by stabile007; 01-14-2004 at 08:11 AM.
 
Old 01-14-2004, 09:48 AM   #942
SpiritAuthor
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Yes, there are lots of choices with Windows. I don't deny that. The point I was making with the whole driver certification thing was that the drive of making a lot of money on the #1 OS, allows inefficient and mediocre programs to flood the market because they're "Windows compatible."

I've seen so many bad Windows apps that I can't count them all. And yes, I've seen bad apps in other OS environments as well. It goes with the territory.

What I do notice with Linux is that the apps seem to be much more efficient and less crash-prone than many Windows apps. I think that's because Windows uses the shared memory space model instead of the protected space model like Linux and OS/2. In fact, when OS/2 was first being developed, Microsoft was working with IBM on collaboration on the project. I used to have a video clip from a conference where Bill Gates was saying that OS/2 was the operating system of the future. Shortly after that, Windows NT was born and M$ left the OS/2 camp. From my first NT installation right through Windows 2000, there were directories and registry references to OS/2 structures. I think Uncle Bill stole what technology he could from IBM and incorporated it into Windows. But that's just my opinion.

All OSs I've seen have problems. Someone's choice to use one or the other is their own business. It's why we have menus in the world. I think it's totally foolish to think that any OS will take the world away from Windows when they have dominated the market with their licensing programs from day one. 10 years ago we would try to buy computers with a different OS on them and we would STILL have to pay for Windows even though it wasn't installed! That's how M$ got to be so big. They had major PC makers sign agreements that stated that every PC they made required license payment to M$ whether or not their OS was installed. It's what got them to be #1 but also ultimately got them into trouble with the law.

Life is all about choices and no one is trying to convert the world except M$. IMHO
 
Old 01-14-2004, 10:18 AM   #943
unholy
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Not to get into a never ending OS bashathon - but Windows probably paved the way a little for GNU / Linux in terms of marketing. Windows told everyone they needed a pc and filled every home with the hardware.

This is the hardware most of us are trying to get our frineds to install Linux on now So MS path has helped in ways too I think.
 
Old 01-14-2004, 10:53 AM   #944
SpiritAuthor
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Good point. Everything has its merit, it's just the methods that bug people. A PC and OS in every device! :-)
 
Old 01-14-2004, 12:58 PM   #945
sxa
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Mac OS X is indeed the best OS if you wanted it to buy an OS, then again their hardware is so expensive.. Windows working like Linux with pretty much any hardware you throw at it.. Yet windows just crashes WAY too much.. I got tired of windows, so I went to linux.. Its also a great learning experince, if you always go for the easy way of things you will never learn anything good.

For me linux is fun and stable.. its easy to use.. Yet I was rasied a mac person, thats back when my computers were bought for me, now I must spend my own hard earned money, and spending $500 on a laptop that might cost me $200 if its a Linux machine.. that is the tough choice I need to make.. I am using a Windows XP machine, the computer is not mine, therefore I cannot put linux on it, I could buy a MAC G3 for say $500 and run OSX on it, or I could get a PC laptop and run Fedora on it.. Yet I really don't know, since I can use that laptop for awhile, I have no clue when I could have to give it back. Also windows XP on that machine has not crashed on me, and does everything that I want it to do, also I guess its good to have a windows Xp machine for when I wasnt to run Windows software, since somtimes I have to run windows software.
 
  


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