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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-21-2003, 03:11 PM   #706
Surfmonkey
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I would just be happy if Linux had a better internet connection wizard. It has been a nightmare trying to get this damn machine online with redhat
 
Old 11-21-2003, 03:19 PM   #707
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by bruno buys
And further: do the linux community profit by growing on user base? Even if it's, like tinkster said, stupid ones?

Yes, the linux community profits big.
Linux lives through knowledgeable masses,
not for stupid ones. You want to be part of
the Linux community, do something useful
for it. If you refuse to learn the basics you
will do diddly-squat (because you won't be
able to), or, even worse, whine.


And the word profit is completely
out of place, too. If more people buy
packed Linux the odd distro may (or may
not, as the near-bankruptcy of mandrake
and the fact that RH has abandoned
the home user market - maybe support
for "knowledge challenged customers"
[or, less politically correct, idiots] is to
costly?) have an advantage, it sure
doesn't do anything to Linux as such.

It doesn't help GNU, it doesn't help the
kernel developers.


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-21-2003, 07:27 PM   #708
smcoptyltd
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"This is not the dissent. This is simply a misunderstanding, since the concept of easy use is not mutually exclusive with the direct access by the command line like it is preferred by some of us. After all is said and done, a lot of slick GUI programs are just front-ends for the command line plus options -- I don't get the problem, some of us want to use the command line, others use GUI-tools -- so what?"


EXACTLY!!! Well said!!!


How about making one web site with all possible drivers?
Try to make a wizard, which will look on line inside your machine, check the hardware you have and give you options.

Hated M$ has something like that and since they are morons and idiots, it should very easy to match them, huh?

1. Automatic installation of most drivers and updates.
Meaning… click on Auto button and NVIDIA, modem, motherboard chipset, sound card etc drivers will be installed fast, depend of speed of modem.

2. Suggestions and info about newest drivers. Their location.

3. Info about newest drivers and updates and links for Tink' like enthusiasts how to compile and install/ uninstall all that crap! ;-P


I wonder which option would be most popular one!


But with support like that. I would pay for support like that. $5 per updates would reasonable, especially when updates would be every month or even a week.

With idea like that Mandrake could make a lot of money and Linux definitely will take off!

Than Linux community can put pressure on hardware vendors to supply s/ware for their products.

I don’t think it would be very hard to do it like that because when you are installing Mandrake, is done like that anyway, in most cases.

So far the greatest success of Linux is initial installation.

1:0 against M$. Half time of installation of Mandrake if compare to Win XP. And that the right direction they have taken. (Thinker may don’t like that simplicity because he loves to type commands. To bad!)

Time for the next round against M$.

Peace…
 
Old 11-21-2003, 07:38 PM   #709
tg5027
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>> But I also find myself continually going back to test the Linux waters in hopes that this time it will meet my expectations as a Windows user.

This is your problem! If Linux had all of the monetary backing and coersion of vendors through that monetary backing, your expectations would be founded in facts and not how you were taught to run the M$ rat maze. You simply do not understand the force of a this monoply on your thought processes. You probably think McDonalds, GM, and the first palce team in any profession sport are to be worshiped due to their accomplishments. It's too bad that you are so motivated and coerced to believe that number 1 is right for every human on the planet, regardless of the methodoligies of that number 1 to reach that position.
 
Old 11-21-2003, 08:31 PM   #710
bruno buys
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I didn't say "profit" in terms of monetary reward. I said in more general way.

Here in brasil, linux has gained support from the federal government. Several federal agencies and offices have migrated to linux. Funds and credit lines have been created to supply public schools and hospitals with connectivity and internet. Brazilians are slowly leaving windows behind.

Why? Due to several reasons, sure. But one that's very important is that linux IS NO LONGER A CREEPY WEIRD STUFF, RAISED IN BASEMENTS BY STRANGE PEOPLE AND KEPT OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN!!!

If people wanna use slack and debian, nice. Ok. Don't wanna use mandrake? Ok, don't. But realize the important role that these companies are playing.

I saw people complaining:

"If Linux had all of the monetary backing and coersion of vendors through that monetary backing, your expectations would be founded in facts and not how you were taught to run the M$ rat maze."

Well, brazilian gov. is paying linux people. And more important: paying with money withdraw from prior MS contracts. There's a fund called "Telecommunications universalization fund" or something like, which discounts 2% of every telephonic call from everywhere in this country, to a fund aimed at supplying software and hardware to public sector. And this money is going mainly to free software.

To keep the pace and to grow, linux has to grow. In everything: user base, friendliness, technology, stability, etc...
Which is why I believe that making linux easier (to the record: didn't say "more win-like"!) is a critical and strategic issue from now one.

Thinkster: you don't need it, don't use it. But if some day you buy a "linux-tailored" piece of hardware for your computer, you'll remember this.
 
Old 11-22-2003, 01:18 AM   #711
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by smcoptyltd
Hated M$ has something like that and since they are morons and idiots, it should very easy to match them, huh?
*sigh*
MS didn't write a single hardware driver.
They all come from the manufacturers.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-22-2003, 06:08 AM   #712
smcoptyltd
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Tinkster wrote:

*sigh*
MS didn't write a single hardware driver.
They all come from the manufacturers.

And that's where you are dead wrong my friend.

On Windows CD ROM all drivers (generic) are written by M$.
At least they are claiming that’s their drivers. ;-P

They are not better than (of course) drivers made by manufacturers (because they are generic) but still Nvidia drivers on Win XP (generic ones) are displaying in 24 bit. Manufacturers drivers are displaying in 32 bit and it is a significant difference if you have 32 bit display.

Quake 3 runs very nice on 32 bit!

With M$ drivers I can get to Windows and than install proper drivers when they are needed. Usually they are must.

Win XP takes about 20-25 minutes to install from scratch so 12 minutes of Mandrake is much better. Unfortunately after fresh installation the trouble starts for both OS's and again, unfortunately, while Windoze is double trouble, Linux is a hell!

Regardless of knowledge and experiences of the person who is installing.

I’m installing about 15 Windows per week on different machines. Half of it is Win XP.

On 1 - 3 machines I have some problems and I have to get on the net to d/load drivers for different cards and devices. Sometimes, once per few weeks I can have some serious trouble when I have to scratch my head and find some solution.

Once per few months I have a problem when I have to get on some newsgroups and ask some questions.

I think is not bad record. If would harder, I would make more money.
So Linux would be a better choice. But… convince others to use it!

What is killing Windows?

Spy ware, viruses, possibilities of back doors, windows is gathering information’s about your habits, where you go on the net, keeping all you passwords and emails even if you delete them. Than cost of Windows, registration, protection, lack of security, windows registry, licenses etc. On top of it is the fact that Windows are made by a convicted criminal, M$.

Peace...
 
Old 11-22-2003, 11:02 AM   #713
smcoptyltd
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Registered: Nov 2003
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Once more... since others are drinking right now including myself!

Operating system it's not the purpose of having a computer!

That’s the workbench, where you can lay some tools to do some work.

As the workbench, should be simple, functional and should be perfectly reliable and simple, where you could easily install your tools like:

Internet browsers

Email programs

Paint and photo editors

Printer' software

Sound editing programs and tools

Graphics programs

Video editing programs

CD/ DVD burning tools.

Spreadsheets, databases.

Organizers

Word processors

Multimedia players

Html editors

Games.

And many others.

Operating system is not the reason to have a computer!

Tools are the reason to have a computer.

As soon as Linux' community will fully grasp that...

One of the best photographers in Australia has told me after
I have installed him his dream machine.

"I'm not a computer technician. I'm a photographer and I have an intention to stay that way. The computer is only the one of my tools."

I think he is right.

Good night....

 
Old 11-22-2003, 01:26 PM   #714
ricdave
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<<< As the workbench, should be simple, functional and should be perfectly reliable and simple, where you could easily install your tools like:

Internet browsers

Email programs

Paint and photo editors

Printer' software

Sound editing programs and tools

Graphics programs

Video editing programs

CD/ DVD burning tools.

Spreadsheets, databases.

Organizers

Word processors

Multimedia players

Html editors

Games.

And many others. >>>

Part of every current distro. What, exactly, is your point?
 
Old 11-22-2003, 01:28 PM   #715
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by smcoptyltd
As the workbench, should be simple, functional and should be perfectly reliable and simple, where you could easily install your tools like:

Operating system is not the reason to have a computer!

Tools are the reason to have a computer.
The problem you have is that everything
here is metric, and your tools are imperial.

And I'll say this again: installing from source
makes it easy and reliable (to maintain) because
you can easily find out what's going where,
and how to uninstall it properly. Installations
on a windows system may be started off easier,
but that's about where the advantages end.

I know LOTS of windows users who will re-install
their windows on a regular basis (between every
3 months and once a year) because they don't
know how what's happened to their machine (it
became slow, it started crashing a lot) ... I rather
spend a few hours on installing the whole system
with proper software once than re-installing
every so often with a few days of tweaking 'til
it suits. :)

Your problem is that you still mistake a
"simplistic look" with "ease of use" ... and
when reliability comes into the picture windows
is ages away. And the other thing that bugs me
in this thread: who's the slave to their OS? :)
Windows-users have to buy a new workbench
every so often, they have to re-assemble their
work-bench in regular intervals because it fell
apart while sanding ... how is that friendly?

Quote:
One of the best photographers in Australia has told me after
I have installed him his dream machine.

"I'm not a computer technician. I'm a photographer and I have an intention to stay that way. The computer is only the one of my tools."
Good on him and good on yah. Own an expensive
kitchen and keep living on fast-food because you
don't know how to cook. I'm a very good chef, enjoy
the process of cooking and take pride of my meals.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-22-2003, 01:46 PM   #716
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by smcoptyltd
On Windows CD ROM all drivers (generic) are written by M$.
At least they are claiming that’s their drivers. ;-P
Not sure which generic drivers you're
referring to, on the few machines I was
forced to re-install XP recently the graphics
came up with a crappy 640x480x16, and
I even needed a manufacturer driver CD.


As for "generic CD-ROM" and "Floppy"
... those are industry standard parts,
the interface hasn't been changed in
10 years, and I'm sure it didn't involve
a lot of re-coding from the old cdrom.sys
out of DOS 3.41...


And that you can also get on any Linux
machine ...


The bits where it becomes interesting are
network device drivers, SCSI drivers,
Graphics card drivers (and I don't refer
to standard VGA which all but a few OLD
3 D accelerators like Voodoo and Voodoo2
can handle - crap resolution, crap speed)...
and none of those are M$...



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-22-2003, 03:38 PM   #717
digibliss
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To be honest, the poll posted is totally unfair.. if you wanted the truth, you would have added:

"I am a Linux Newbie, and I like Linux the way it is!"

However, you did not, do I sense some denial in your post?
 
Old 11-22-2003, 05:36 PM   #718
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by digibliss
However, you did not, do I sense some denial in your post?
Very valid point ... :}

However, I doubt he'll be replying.

He wasn't on this board since 16th of May.


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-22-2003, 06:58 PM   #719
digibliss
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Well, better late then never
 
Old 11-22-2003, 07:23 PM   #720
smcoptyltd
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“The problem you have is that everything
here is metric, and your tools are imperial.”


Agree and that’s the huge step backwards.
I hate Yankies for that crap.


”And I'll say this again: installing from source
makes it easy and reliable (to maintain) because
you can easily find out what's going where,
and how to uninstall it properly. Installations
on a windows system may be started off easier,
but that's about where the advantages end.”


Agree again. The way you have to install them is in a dispute.



”I know LOTS of windows users who will re-install
their windows on a regular basis (between every
3 months and once a year) because they don't
know how what's happened to their machine (it
became slow, it started crashing a lot) ... I rather
spend a few hours on installing the whole system
with proper software once than re-installing
every so often with a few days of tweaking 'til
it suits.



Don’t agree here. Any Windows on any computer may work
for years without major problem. Problems are created by:

users
viruses
hdd failure
spy ware
hidden files and folders made by M$


I had services some computers which had original Win 95, installed
originally be me in 1995. If happened few weeks ago.




“Windows-users have to buy a new workbench
every so often, they have to re-assemble their
work-bench in regular intervals because it fell
apart while sanding ... how is that friendly?”


Not true. Still some businesses have Win 3.11 with Office 4.3.
99% users don’t need Office 2003.

Mainly computers are upgraded because people love to spend money on them

And they don’t want to be left behind. What my neighbor would say if I would still run Win 3.11 FWG!

People upgrading them also, because there are better monitors, video cards, sound cards in 5.1 surround system (Does Linux have it!?) and DVD watching on 19” LCD with surround 5.1 or 6.1 is really a great fun.

ADSL or cable internet with cordless networking is great as well.

With new hardware comes new OS’s.

Most folks are saying that blue Win XP is BS but… not many are switching XP into traditional look of Win 2000.

FWIW. Windows XP Home is much cheaper than Win 98 SE, because many people are not buying it.

Peace…


BTW. Tinkster! I started to like you!

The trouble is, I don't know why!
 
  


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