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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2003, 02:10 PM   #481
Tinkster
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Sheeeesh ... I can't believe that this
POS thread, started of by just another
troll, is still alive, and growing :)

But, since it covers 7 MONTHS!!!,
could you guys who quote others frequently,
please include their name, and the DATE
they posted it? :)
 
Old 11-02-2003, 04:52 PM   #482
lectraplayer
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Quote:
Originally posted by nightjar
tcaptain
You said "for *ME* Linux *IS* easier to use than windows"
Exactly !!!
The word you're looking for is actually stable. I guess your refrence to adding octal as decimal is actually why Windows crashes so much.
 
Old 11-02-2003, 08:09 PM   #483
tmillard
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Have you looked at Lindows?
 
Old 11-03-2003, 12:31 AM   #484
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmillard
Have you looked at Lindows?
Who? And why? :D

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-03-2003, 02:23 AM   #485
estiedi
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Luxemburg
Distribution: Suse; debian
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I haven't read all of the thread, but I just wanted to post my opinion on Linux being more difficult to Windows.

I use Linux for 3 years now and it hasn't always been easy. Certainly not in the beginning.
Even today I sometimes still bang my head against the desk, BUT...

- I banged my head against the desk while using Windows as well.

- I couldn't install Windows XP on my new PC 'cos it wouldn't recognise my Plextor DVD writer. (it works fine with W2K though) (so far for hardware support on Windows)

- While using Linux I learned that you can find a solution, even for the most tedious problems.
This is not true for Windows, where I often had to create workarounds or even had to give up.

- Once I found my way around in Linux and lost my Windows mentality (don't touch if you're not 100% sure, give up and wait for someone else to solve the problem, find a workaround)
I find Linux easier to use.
I was lucky and had a Linux guru next door, so when I asked him :"How do I uninstall that program" and he answered: "delete the directoy", I first thought he was kidding, afterwards I said "whow! Cool!"
He thought me as well to _read_ the error messages and the log files and the Internet.


My conclusion:
It helps a lot if you have a godfather that helps you on the way. (to learn starting thinking again ;-)

My message:
To all the Linux gurus : if you want to do something for Linux, take a newbie at a time and put him on track. Be patient.

To all the Linux newbies : don't give up, it takes effort to learn Linux, but one day your effort will be paid back a thousand times.
and


estiedi
 
Old 11-03-2003, 04:46 AM   #486
n0va
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I though changed just a few days ago, wanted to do so since like sooooo long ago. It was the power you could have. All in your hands. But the main problem is the un-user-friendliness that spins off many. But for those who persist and continue with it, times that you used to learn Linux will not be put to waste. We should all help each other to make Linux into everything, from the bare Windows-styled to the complicated. Make Linux user-friendly. Make it special. Decorate it with a welcome mat, so new users will not feel strange and give up. My first installation was like ... I could enter only the command prompt (*somehow*) only and I never knew a single command (with the exception of "help"). Linux was made to become a choice for everybody, boasting the power of UNIX and with the user-friendliness of Windows. That's what I think Linux should be.
 
Old 11-03-2003, 05:51 AM   #487
jmckeown
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The worst thing in Linux for me is Root/User complications. If I run as a user I probably have to give root password dozens of time s a day, but worse when I've been editing a file and then realise I can't save it as I'm only a user. Recently I discovered suid, which helped me setup "apm -s" on my mum's PC without having to tell her root password. And sudo looks useful. But when I read about the rationale for root/user writeres seem to assume there is more than one user on the machine. This is never true for me. LInux doesn't seem to have made the adjustment to the single-user desktop/laptop, the people who make distros (except Lindows) assume a multi-user machine. During install there should be a basic option - is this a single-user system and if so it should either run as root only , or be setup with one user that can edit web stuff at /var/www (local test before upload) and config files under /etc and so that user is never faced with - you cannot edit this webpage or config file, and never has to give another password just to configure the system.

regards,
John
 
Old 11-03-2003, 09:57 AM   #488
perry
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmillard
Have you looked at Lindows?
the last i heard "Lindows" was being royally sued by the whores at Microsoft. anybody know what happened to that ?

- perry
 
Old 11-03-2003, 12:19 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmckeown
This is never true for me. LInux doesn't seem to have made the adjustment to the single-user desktop/laptop, the people who make distros (except Lindows) assume a multi-user machine. During install there should be a basic option - is this a single-user system and if so it should either run as root only , or be setup with one user that can edit web stuff at /var/www (local test before upload) and config files under /etc and so that user is never faced with - you cannot edit this webpage or config file, and never has to give another password just to configure the system.
Apparently you've never worked with
any of the "real" Microsleuth OSes. If
you had used NT or 2000 you'd know
that you're not expected to do things
as admin, either. If you did use them
you must have ignored MS's warnings,
which suggests that you shouldn't be
using computers at all...


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-03-2003, 12:34 PM   #490
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by n0va
But the main problem is the un-user-friendliness that spins off many.
I do appreciate that you like Linux,
but you're still infested with MS metaphors
of thought mate. User-friendly is a matter
of definition. If you define "a point and
click interface that won't let you do
crucial tasks after all" as friendly, you
are right. But I think that the makers of
an operating system who believe their
product is smarter than me and should
lead me all the way rather than do what
I want it to do are insulting me :)

I don't think that keeping people happy
by "simple" interaction and keeping them
stupid is a friendly thing to do. I don't think
that "simple" and "friendly" are synonyms.

In my line of thought the ability to fix the
XServer setup of a machine 2000 miles
away via a 9600baud connection is
friendlier than an office assistant that
wags, purrs or blinks and gives the
same answer (true but pointless) over
and over again, and then suggests to
call MS who are going to charge me
bucks for helping me with a problem
they caused. And no, the MS remote
assistance tool is not an equivalent
to ssh.

I find the willingness of MS users to
subdue to the STUPIDITY of their OS
absolutely stunning. There are people
around who claim they didn't have to
boot their Windows machine in ages.
But to the average MS user, the reboot
(three, four, .... times a DAY) is normal.
But Linux ... if it's not for a new kernel,
or a new chunk of hardware, I would
never have to restart my machine. In
so and so many years I've only hung
Linux once, and that was because I
force installed a module for hardware
that didn't exist :}

But I'm repeating myself, I've said all
this in this thread before ;)


Cheers,
Tink

Last edited by Tinkster; 11-03-2003 at 01:24 PM.
 
Old 11-03-2003, 02:29 PM   #491
Dale Dorman
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I agree,, make it easier. My problem is with downloads from the web, with Windows it is much easier to download and install. I have yet to figure out how to install a program after it is downloaded and I have several sitting in my "home" waiting for installation, as soon as I can figure out how to do it. Anyone out there know of a really good book that can walk me through it .. step by step or someone that can explain it so I can follow along ???????????
 
Old 11-03-2003, 03:07 PM   #492
jmckeown
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Tink wrote
> If you had used NT or 2000 you'd know
that you're not expected to do things
as admin, either.

True. They have Win2K Pro at work - but that
is designed for a LAN, network shares, and
also so the IT people can lock things down

But I'm thinking of the home desktop where one
user has no-one else to worry about. Maybe
you're right -- but I admit that I work as root
for convenience - perhaps when I learn more
I will be comfortable working as user; discovered
sudo today which looks hopeful in that direction

regards
John
 
Old 11-03-2003, 03:46 PM   #493
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n/a

Last edited by Tinkster; 11-03-2003 at 04:05 PM.
 
Old 11-03-2003, 03:47 PM   #494
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dale Dorman
I agree,, make it easier. My problem is with downloads from the web, with Windows it is much easier to download and install. I have yet to figure out how to install a program after it is downloaded and I have several sitting in my "home" waiting for installation, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.
flame-fodder on
Heh ... that's the whole reason why
Linux is superior to windows. You NEED
to think, and understand how the machine
does things, and why things are done the
way they are. Just look at distros that try
to be more "user-friendly" (gimmickish,
colourful and pointy-clicky) - they make
more fuck-ups than the hard-core ones.
And this is from a design-perspective,
unavoidable - you simply CAN'T foresee/
anticipate every possible stupid action
or combination of circumstances that
might occur, and trying to get there will
give you bloat, just like windows does.

And the users of those very distros then
come running, tears and snot all over:
"'My such-and-such-tool' didn't do what
it should!" and have no idea where to even
start looking, because they (like users of
windows) are kept stupid.

Bringing it to a point:
life ain't easy, and computers are complex
machines. MS tries to hide that fact, and they
do a pretty good job at brain-washing a
majority of people, lulling them into the
belief that "windows is easy!" ... the funny
thing is that people want to believe it, even
if they are driven to despair by reboots, or
have to re-install, or are forced to rummage
through the registry (a hilariously large and
complex file that can't be simply edited with
and ASCII-Editor).
flame-fodder off

No offense meant :}

Cheers,
Tink (hardliner & purist :})
 
Old 11-03-2003, 03:50 PM   #495
Lostman
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Location: Chicago, IL
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I don't get it. If you install Mandrake 9.1 and go with KDE, it's just like windows. Most of the programs are installed already. What is so hard? The hard stuff involves things you could never do in Windows. So if your just looking for an internet station or office suite, install it and leave it alone!
 
  


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