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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-19-2003, 04:36 AM   #376
shinwise
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The point is Ive installed 98,2K and Xp and everything never works right out of the box. Even if you do manage to get your drives partitioned and formated and get the setup.exe running once I got into a desktop I only had a standard pci Vga driver installed with only 16 colors, I didn`t have any sound with Unknown PCI device in my device manager, No ethernet driver installed with Unknown Communications device in the device manager. Now, I know how to install 3rd party device drivers by myself, but a typical joe-sixpack with no computer experience is gonna freak out when they see all them wierd colors on the desktop and nothing works. I`ve installed various flavors of Linux and usually, granted there are exceptions video, sound, ethernet works right out of the box.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 12:08 PM   #377
iamzzzzleeping
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Reply to my own post

Yeah sorry i was justed P155ed off by the total newb flaming my OS. Windows install is so much harder compared to a linux install... that is just my opinion... I run an ibm wit a recovery cd (win ME) and my after market video card does not start up correctly and it takes me an hour to get through the win me start up and config cause it runs in 800x600 and the card runs in 640x480 till the drivers are installed
Linux did it right the first time. b4 u speak
 
Old 10-19-2003, 03:45 PM   #378
BOFH2003
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Okay, this thread is 26 pages long, and I need some sleep so I'm not going to read it all just yet. Still, after reading the first few pages, I just felt that it was important to make this point:

The common misconception in the Linux 'fanboy' world is that Windows "takes away" your control over the OS. Speaking as the guy who crammed Windows 95 down into 4.47mb and was featured on Slashdot for it, I'd be happy to vouch that Windows does NOT take away your control over the OS.

In fact, I find it easier to tweak my Windows Server 2003 install than I do to tweak my RH9/SuSE 9/Solaris installs. Doing low-level stuff on my Mac is virtually impossible without an intimate knowledge of Darwin's configuration structure, which varies immensely from the Unix/Linux standard.

Yes, I'm a Windows Fanboy, but I'm still open-minded. I don't think Linux sucks - it just isn't a good OS; by a long shot.

Windows is faster, more stable, more configurable, and easier to fix when something goes wrong. There's so much more information out there for Windows than there is for Linux, and problems can generally be solved from within a GUI, rather than having to resort to the CLI ( la Recovery Console).

I was hoping there'd be a nice, easy way to wrap this post up, but I guess there isn't. Windows doesn't take away user control - users's attitudes do that.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 05:02 PM   #379
lectraplayer
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOFH2003
Okay, this thread is 26 pages long, and I need some sleep so I'm not going to read it all just yet. Still, after reading the first few pages, I just felt that it was important to make this point:
I feel ya man. To be honest, any user may be a two-edged sword. You have users like me who will do anything to it, so long as I can figure it out on my own within about thirty minutes without asking anyone. This is what I'm having a hard time with. ...You also have the hackers (not the crackers, but they're there too) who want to modify it and play with it and see just what it will do (who usually prefer Linux because of this). ...and then, you have your lazy group, like Great Gatspy's example, who don't really need a computer. They just have one that they really don't use. Even Windows isn't that fragile, that one wrong move will shatter the whole thing. Linux only is that way if you run as Root (so I found the hard way), but for a good purpose. How do you expect to fix a broken system when you don't have permissions to get to what you need?

However, I have not given up. ...then again, the French may suck worse than I thought with Mandrake. I'll try to port my machine to RedHat and see what happens (if it don't crash! ).

I will bet, though, that Microsoft paid BOFH2003 for that post though. You're suppposed to hate Window here. My experiences with Windows and Linux: Linux wins hands down. Windows hardly ever works for me. Linux always does for normal day-to-day work. ...maybe I'm giving off some type of electromagnetic radiation that affects most computers, and Windows may be more succeptable to the errors that result from it than Linux.

Last edited by lectraplayer; 10-19-2003 at 05:06 PM.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 05:08 PM   #380
BOFH2003
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Pfft, if MS were paying me to post on a forum, then they'd be fining me for installing SuSE 9.0 and RH9, lol.

As far as running as root, I always do (Administrator on Windows, Root on Linux/QNX), because otherwise there's so much that you can't do.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 05:34 PM   #381
lectraplayer
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Dam! There goes my server. I bet that on your post. I've shattered Linux several times by running as root. After I quit running as Root, unless I needed it, I have not lost Linux yet (and Windows actually quit crashing too! ).
 
Old 10-19-2003, 10:09 PM   #382
Z2.
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I have been tinkering on and off with Linux (mostly in its RedHat flavours) for about 2 years now, and surfed a huge amount of sites trying to get weird things like USB DSL modems running on PPPoA etc...

There is a definite difference in easy of use between Windows and Linux, in that Windows Wizardifies everything. You still have to know a fair amount about what you are working with, but Windows sets it all up to be idiot proof. It can still be a right pain, like when Windows simply wont boot, what do you do ? You go back to command line ... FIXBOOT etc...

The thing is that most of Linux appears to work this way (to a n00b who is used to wizards anyway).
 
Old 10-19-2003, 11:45 PM   #383
misophist
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If bananaman hates installs and dependencies, and who doesn't, from time to time, he might be happier with debian or perhaps libranet. They do a good job of getting you out of dependency hell.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 11:46 PM   #384
rakriege
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FIXBOOT??
 
Old 10-20-2003, 11:19 AM   #385
ricdave
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<<< If bananaman hates installs and dependencies, and who doesn't, from time to time, he might be happier with debian or perhaps libranet. They do a good job of getting you out of dependency hell. >>>

Yeah, Libranet is awesome. Runs well on older machines, lasy way to get debian. I like it.
 
Old 10-20-2003, 01:28 PM   #386
BOFH2003
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"FIXBOOT??"

Basically, Fixboot repairs the boot sector of the current partition, allowing you to boot Windows normally if your bootsector gets erased. Also, if you accidentally (stupidly) install GRUB/LILO into the MBR, then you can repair that too, by running FIXMBR from the Windows 2000/XP/.NET recovery console.

Had to do that the other day when I was installing RH9
 
Old 10-20-2003, 02:27 PM   #387
bruno buys
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1. Yes, ok, I agree with all of you. But, as the first post started, "making linux easier for the general people" can bring some practical advantages for us users. As more and more people align with linux, we begin to represent critical mass for hardware vendors. It can be possible that we start to have better hardware support, and device drivers. This is important, and it can be a great acomplishment if we take "making linux easier" serious.

2. If people need a typing machine, a fax machine and browser for daily work, I don't see why can't linux be configured to do that. The humble daily work is whats gonna get linux in the hands of everyone. Let admins install and configure, let users use.

3. If, and only if, the day when linux users will be so numerous that we can't be ignored, we can get to see even MS programming for linux. As a profit-oriented business, MS won't be out of a profitable market. No ideology, just business.

4. Personally, I'd like to see more device drivers for linux without having to rely on a home written driver that barely communicates with the device, hanging and crashing on every click.
 
Old 10-20-2003, 02:35 PM   #388
perry
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Quote:
Originally posted by bruno buys

4. Personally, I'd like to see more device drivers for linux without having to rely on a home written driver that barely communicates with the device, hanging and crashing on every click.
that probably explains why my Xircom network adaptor for my laptop communicates at 100 Mps when in Windows and barely 40 KBps in Linux

sux but what can you do when you live in a shoe

- perry
 
Old 10-20-2003, 05:15 PM   #389
bruno buys
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I will never quit stressing this point. It seems like crystal clear thought, to me.

- Other things equal, easier is faster. Therefore, easier is better.

If algorithm 'a' performs task 1 in less time than does algorithm 'b', then 'a' is preferable.

If you replace 'algorithm' with 'OS' in the above statement (which is very fair), and include in the "time to perform a task" the correct positioning of every piece of stuff needed to perform a task (config files, binaries, compilers, options, command line switches, etc etc), than, linux might likely take more time than windows to perform an average randomly-picked task.

If we have the whole history of algorithm research directed toward finding the fastest and best way to do something, why shouldn't we apply the same spirit to measure OS quality, which is, at the very bottom, a collection of algorithms?
 
Old 10-20-2003, 05:31 PM   #390
BOFH2003
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The thing about Windows, though, is that it isn't simply "faster". It's speed WITH whatever level of control you decide to apply to that task; and stability while you're doing it.

I hated Windows 9x. Hell, even Bill Gates hated Windows 9x. The NT-based versions, however, have been infinitely better than their home-orientated counterparts, and also better than Linux in the process.
 
  


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