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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2003, 04:26 AM   #361
perry
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bosk
Interesting comments from you all. You're all right! In my experience (starting with Unix 15years ago then devolving to windows since then) I found that:

a. Linux feels like "real computing"
b. Windows isn't computing but a tool like a whyteboard or telephone.

So in our situation:

On the desktop, Windows is the best only becuase Windows is the most popular and so teachers are familiar with it can get software easily etc and it is much, much faster (GUI) on low spec machines.

Behind the scenes (ie no GUI) Linux rules, it's faster, leaner, meaner and not forgeting stable.
Actually Gnome or KDE under Mandrake 9.1 is no more complicated that Windows XP...

In fact I'd consider it simpler...

The only thing I'd recommend to get around problems you've described would be to have the proper hardware to run it on. That way you minimize your configuration requirements and get the most out of Linux! And by proper hardware I don't mean the latest and greatest but rather look at last years greats. Because it's last years greats (in the hardware department) that you'll get the best performance on at the best prices. And further, by sticking to well established hardware vendors like ATI, you'll cash in on the most refined Linux drivers all ready to go!

And finally, the learning curve to Gnome or KDE is no more complicated than someone going from 98 to ME to NT to XP which is by far more frustrating. Not to mention the fact that IceWM prides itself on mimicking WIndows and MAC and Unix and everybody else.

Cheers,

- perry




Last edited by perry; 10-17-2003 at 04:30 AM.
 
Old 10-17-2003, 07:40 AM   #362
unholy
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Yes the desktops are fine. Installation is the only thing that needs improvement if the likes of my mothere is going to use it.
 
Old 10-17-2003, 07:59 AM   #363
perry
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Quote:
Originally posted by unholy
Yes the desktops are fine. Installation is the only thing that needs improvement if the likes of my mothere is going to use it.
wouldn't you be in charge of installation ?
 
Old 10-17-2003, 05:31 PM   #364
ricdave
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<< You want a simpler verson (other than redhat)? its called Windows >>

Not so. At least half a dozen easier to use out of the box, quicker, pre-configured than Red Hat. Red Hat has historically ignored the desktop. It is not a consumer oriented distro.
 
Old 10-17-2003, 08:22 PM   #365
Stalkz
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I think it'd be a good idea, but it would take away from the whole purpose of having Linux.


It should just be a segway between windows and linux. But then again, isn't that what Lindows is, somewhat?

This is coming from someone who has tried to install multiple distros and has been unsuccesful each time. I can install just fine, but my ethernet seems to not be useable at ALL on Linux I guess -shrugs-
 
Old 10-17-2003, 08:52 PM   #366
unholy
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Quote:
Originally posted by perry
wouldn't you be in charge of installation ?
"My Mother" is an analogy for basic users, and by installation, I mean package installation, not the os.
 
Old 10-17-2003, 10:05 PM   #367
lectraplayer
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Lke I have said before, installing Mandrake is very easy. ...so we can throw away the whole installation discussion right there.
 
Old 10-18-2003, 05:28 AM   #368
shinwise
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What really gets me are these people that say a Linux installation should be dumbed-down or "Just as easy as Windows". Have you actually ever really tried to install Windows? on a barebones system? If you had you would know it is anything but easy. Making a boot disk, trying to partition your hard drive with archaic tools like fdisk (hell even Redhat`s Disk Druid makes and easier to use graphical interface than that), then executing some text commands to format the drive, then figuring out how to start the setup program cause it won`t just auto-boot from CD. Still think Windows is easy to install??? Try a little test, clean your computer completely all drives, all partitions; find someone with no computer experience hand them a Windows disk and a Linux disk and see which one they have setup first. Lets not forget in the Windows world things are usually pre-installed by the OEM in the case of a new system or by the resident nerd in the case of an upgrade. There are even these live-cds in Linux where all you gotta do is turn on the power and put the disk in the drive and you got a full up and running desktop. Any fool could figure that out. I rest my case
 
Old 10-18-2003, 06:50 AM   #369
ricdave
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<<< "My Mother" is an analogy for basic users, and by installation, I mean package installation, not the os. >>>

apt get "Package Name"
urpmi "Package Name"

Doesn't get much easier than that.
 
Old 10-18-2003, 12:09 PM   #370
perry
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myth (big big myth): windows is somehow simple to use...

Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
<<< "My Mother" is an analogy for basic users, and by installation, I mean package installation, not the os. >>>

apt get "Package Name"
urpmi "Package Name"

Doesn't get much easier than that.
i think in all the excitement over linux, someone has forgotten how insane windows is to use. config, fix, tweak, toy and did i mention use. true, it's whatever you learn first that you get partial to but linux has brought back the magic to computing. at least with linux, those version numbers at the end of the rpm package mean something.

it's not that hard

- perry
 
Old 10-18-2003, 06:58 PM   #371
iamzzzzleeping
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Whiner

Shut up Paul
 
Old 10-18-2003, 10:10 PM   #372
tombomb300
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Im pretty mucha noob and i havnt even read this whole thread but in my short use of linux i can say say that it is simple, its not hard at all, just diffrent from windows, and it doenst need to be made easier at all people just to able to sue their head more when theya re using their computer. just my noob opionion
 
Old 10-18-2003, 10:29 PM   #373
lectraplayer
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Re: Whiner

Quote:
Originally posted by iamzzzzleeping
Shut up Paul
Alright iamzzzleeping. Stop flaming and go back to sleep. He does have a point. You must do most things by hand when setting up Windows if you expect to not have to low level format your hard disk afterwards, but Linux (any flavor!) they usually hand you each tool as you need it for each step of the setup process. I have set up Windows sytems before, and it isn't too hard to me, but installing Linux proved to be much easier each time, unless there was a disk error. .. but then again, a disk error on Windows has usually resulted in a massive fallout of Windows components, whereas Linux would go ahead and tell me a problem occurred.
 
Old 10-18-2003, 11:20 PM   #374
rakriege
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It reads as though most of you are referring to Win NT, 95, or 98 as your comparison guide line. I use both Linux and Windows (Windows since ver3.1). At the GUI, both are quite similar, as referring to partitioning Win 2k, XP and .NET are very easy. The older versions I must admit, left little to be desired, requiring the knowledge of basic DOS commands and having to configure Head and cylinder sizes, F-disk and format configs. Its changed and quite simple on both OS's now.

All I see as an improvement to Linux for the basic HOME user would improver device mounting and improve driver support.

For those hard core Linux guys, Windows uses much of the same techology in the .Net Sys, you just cant see it because the source code isn't accessible, ie....in Linux you call it Hard/Sym link in Windows you call is shadow-copy...list goes on. The File structure on Linux is far better, it basically uses text file which are easy to fix if you know how. Windows uses a registry (like your spine) if damaged it can be quite the nightmare, but with the new SYS Restore and driver roll back features, its becoming quite easy to fix.

Software...well MS has it all, its not free but most households use it....

just a thought to keep the peace

Last edited by rakriege; 10-18-2003 at 11:21 PM.
 
Old 10-19-2003, 03:41 AM   #375
thegreatgatsby
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the trouble is that most of the general population (e.g "my mother") find windows difficult and would like it dumbed down further.

Take my mother for example, she would never even consider to attempt to install a program on her laptop without paid help, and will not believe me that it's ok to close the lid with the machine on.

These users could be a two edged sword for linux:
1) If people are not willing to do anything with a computer, & pay for all support with a kind man coming around to the house, then all it requires is a very simple gui & a totally stable system - Linux appears perfect for that :-)
2) they wil be scared off :-(
 
  


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