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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2003, 06:05 AM   #181
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Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Durham, England
Distribution: Fedora Core 4
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Software installation is something we're working on at the moment. Expect to see results in approximately 12 to 18 months.

Replicating command line functionality in the GUI is an ongoing effort, and has been for many years.
Old 09-07-2003, 12:33 PM   #182
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
<<I'm working very hard to move away from the M$ monopoly and am not stupid or unwilling to RTFM. I respect the Linux users that have paid their dues and enjoy Linux just as it is. I would just like to see Open Source come up with a way to make Windows obsolete for the casual user as well as the elite.>>

Elx Linux comes closest IMHO. As near zero learning curve for windows users as I have seen. Several other distros come close, Lindows, Lycoris, Xandros, Sot, etc. Mandrake comes closest among free downloads, I think. Of course, we all know what opinions are like and everyone has one.
Old 09-07-2003, 12:33 PM   #183
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Registered: Mar 2003
Location: New York, NY
Distribution: Debian Testing
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the onnnnnnnnnly problem linux has is support from the companies - mostly drivers for h/w (in my case, at least).
u get a 650mb cd along with a product from a company. 2 mb is used for the installation manual, and help, and a free copy of acrobat 4. then a 50kb space for win32 drivers.
u would think they would use the remaining space for something else? nope.
it is not right , just is not, to see companies not support linux users.

but it is not a big complaint, because of the guys who write the drivers. it might take a while - but it gets done.

as for software installs, i personally think apt has no match.

i switch to my windows partition for only the below reasons:
1. i havent gotten my sndcard to work. but ive been busy with work, so i havent had the need to listen to music. not that its not annoying, but i know its only a matter of time till i sit down for half an hour, and apply a patch to a kernel.
2. webcam on msn to chat with my folks.

and thats bout it. absolutely nothing else. i used to switch partitions very often, but no longer.

im happy (and frustrated sometimes) with this, in a way win32 never made me. its like having a girlfriend on ur lap (mines a laptop). win32 is like being single. (not a great analogy, but hey ... im not in the arts)

Last edited by h/w; 09-07-2003 at 12:38 PM.
Old 09-07-2003, 12:41 PM   #184
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
<<However until I can find a distro that at least does everything I can do with windows as easily as I can do it in Windows then Linux will (IMHO) is still playing catch up. >>

Linux will always be a little behind Windows and Apple. The gee whiz apps and hardware are not being developed by/for Linux. Linux will always be at least 6 months behind Windows/Apple in consumer software. Takes time and dollars to develop and market.
This is just not Linux' strength.
Old 09-07-2003, 12:49 PM   #185
Registered: May 2002
Location: Wales
Distribution: Slack 8.1, Gentoo 1.3a, Red Hat 7.3, Red Hat 7.2, Manrake 8.2
Posts: 328

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Linux's strengths are mainly in the low to mid end of the server market due to: -

1. Its excellent Security features
2. Flexibility
3. Open Source software that more than matches the capabilities of its commercial equivalents.

However if someones first desktop experience is with Linux and not Windows then Im sure that they would find that the mixed CLI and GUI approach fits thier needs far better than Windows pure GUI approach. That said I still use WIndows for gaming and word processing simply because it takes less time to do things and because I myself started with Windows. I do find Linux superior for many tasks though. Untill Gaming support is achived out of the box and more people become aware of open office then I cant see much changing.

But Linux is not difficult to learn and use, making it any simpler would surely compromise the O/S's flexibility.

Last edited by dai; 09-07-2003 at 12:51 PM.
Old 09-07-2003, 12:50 PM   #186
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
I couldn't help but notice the opinion thing at the top. Newbies and occasional users(in my case, using since 1999, but avoid config files unless absolutely no other way to get it done)far outnumber hardcore users. Neither good or bad, just the way things are. I think/hope that the number of newbies/occasional users are rising and thriving because of the efforts of commercial distros to make the change to Linux as painless and attractive as possible.
Old 09-07-2003, 07:12 PM   #187
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Distribution: Mandrake 9.1
Posts: 59

Rep: Reputation: 15
I'm a noobie to Linux.

I have been using Windows XP about a year and a half. Not a great deal of computer experience before that. I have Mandrake 9.1 on a partition along with XP after having tried Red Hat for a few weeks and not liking it so much.

I really enjoy Linux. There is a lot of great software, and somehow it feels more safe and comfortable, if that makes any sense. And doing something different if often a worthwhile thing.

But despite the user-friendliness of Mandrake, I have found installing anything that didn't come with my distro a head-pounding nightmare. I've been banging my head against a wall for a full day now trying to install giFT. It seems everytime I make progress some other lib or file is missing. Why isn't there a package download with everything on it? If it's a question of size, there could be an express or full download. Seems simple enough to me.

I don't really have much of a problem using the command line either, but is it really so difficult to program distros in a way to allow people to install, etc. from the gui? I am far from a programmer but I can't see it being all that complicated.

NEways i will continue to plug away at it because I believe Linux has a bright future. Good luck to all other noobs out there

Old 09-08-2003, 05:24 AM   #188
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That's the sort of thing we're working on. It's not an easy problem to solve, for reasons I won't go into here.
Old 09-08-2003, 09:18 PM   #189
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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: massachusetts
Distribution: redhat 9
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on making linux easier

on a rainy day a few months ago, i installed rh9 on my box at home and starting playing around. I love the interface, the stability was awesome, it all took some time to get used to. I had to put linux away for some time becuz the wifey like's windows better...... anyway now coming back to linux becuz of the windows virus activity has been bad in august. i thought i might make a change to linux. I installed it on laptop....dual boot with xp/redhat9. everything is working great. have been able to get some programs working with minimal difficulty. However..... i fall into the newbie category here, i'm used to windows, it's directory structure, control panel, setting up digital cameras etc.....

the problems i have with linux is that i have questions on how to install programs, but where are my programs?? where do i find them??? I've look for doc's on the web on how linux is set up, help,directory structure, etc. Where does a newbie start?????? i bought the redhat9 bible, but it turned out to be less helpful than i thought, but very informative.

for the people that read this post, please be gentle i'm just a noob. thanks.
Old 09-08-2003, 10:19 PM   #190
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Stoughton, MA
Distribution: Gentoo x86_64 & PPC
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I don't like the choices: I am a relative newbie/novice AND I don't care either way. I couldn't really choose any of the 3 cause none are me.

I am learning Linux just fine and love tinkering with it. I don't even use windows anymore besides to play NFSHP2 (and even that like once a week). I would rather tinker and play I like setting up my entire computing environment to suit me, I like the open source community and what it stands for, I like being independant of the M$ manipulation machine, and I don't really even mind when it takes 5 hrs to get something configured properly. I learn from it anyway. I almost live by "if it ain't broke, keep messing with it". I figure thats why I got bored with windows. I don't have any more problems that are challenging to solve there, so I spend my time in Linux

Like I said, none of those 3 choices suit me.

After I gain more confidence here in Mandrake, I am gonna check out Slack!

Last edited by Scruff; 09-08-2003 at 10:22 PM.
Old 09-08-2003, 11:38 PM   #191
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Stoughton, MA
Distribution: Gentoo x86_64 & PPC
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Snowpusher: I was just surfing around and happened on this: which goes into a bit of detail about file structure and I thought of your post. Notice this is "lesson 4". Check out the table of contents if you are so inclined, and see what else this resource has to offer. There is some good newbie info here
Old 09-08-2003, 11:44 PM   #192
chas good
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I am new to linux. Been giving a few distros a try the last few weeks.
To me (a newbie) linux means less choice not more. Installing new software is way to complicated.
I don't care for the KDE file manager. Don't care for the windows file manager either. I got used to using a windows program called Total Commander (Formally Windows Commander till Billy Boy threw lawyers at them. Seems Microshaft got the rights to the word windows.) Anyway I found a linux program that works like Total Commander. Downloaded a source file from the website. I thought ok I will unpack the tar or gz or whatever it is and install it. It seems I have to compile it. Compiling is way to close to programing for me. Totally lost is what I am.
A simple task in windows is a major undertaking in linux. No wonder the distros come with so much stuff preconfigured. Not much chance for a newbie to install anything. If all these distros are based on the same underpinnings why the need to compile it?
I would love to get away from Billy Boys OS but as it stands now Linux has a far to high learning curve and I don't have the time to learn it.
I haven't booted to linux in several days now. I did away with the boot-loader by accident trying to get windows as the default not Mandrake and just haven't bothered to fix it.
Old 09-09-2003, 01:54 AM   #193
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Distribution: Red Hat
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I've been using Windows since 1995, and XP Pro since it came out. I've always loved Windows (and especially XP), and still do. Recently though, I have been getting more curious every day about Linux. I'd seen where people have said it's better than Windows, it's hard as hell to use, it offers more flexibility, etc. So many varying opinions...

I installed Red Hat 9 yesterday, dual booting with my XP Pro. I've only used RH9 today, and I must say that it's very nice indeed. I like it, and I have no problem trying to figure things out. I would *NEVER* go completely Linux though. My intent from this day on is to dual boot XP Pro and Linux, or at least until I become an expert in Linux. Until then, I need to keep XP Pro as I have a lot of things I just have to keep it for, including my games.

Linux is definitely harder to use than Windows, but I put that down to the fact that I have used nothing but Windows for 8 years. I consider myself to be very computer savvy, and I am sure that in time, I will regard Linux to be fairly easy to use too.

It just takes time, like most things.
Old 09-09-2003, 02:26 AM   #194
Registered: Sep 2003
Distribution: Ubuntu Edgy Eft
Posts: 75

Rep: Reputation: 15
Mandrake 9.1

Yes Linux is much more feature-rich and secure than XP but after two weeks of trying to get sound out of my sound card & getting lots of "you need to do this" "no, you need to do this" none of which worked for me & not being able to get my MS trackball explorer even powered over usb by the system (and no-one else seems to have this problem either so advice on this issue has been non-existent!) I've had it. Sorry but for me XP works straight out of the box, recognises all of my hardware and I'm away actually DOING things - not tinkering with bloody config files trying to get simple things to work.

I've given Linux two weeks of my time and I'm no further along than I was when I installed it - people have been very positive and helpful but my basic hardware components are just not working. That's two weeks when I could have been doing a bit of graphic/web design and actually producing something. Maybe I'll come back and look at Linux at some point in the future but I think it's fair to say if you look at posts in this forum that there's a very high failure rate - people get half way through a support thread and dissapear - ie they've given up like me. I really want to be able to use an alternative to Windoze but I just don't have the necessary skills to use Linux as it is at the moment - and I've been building PCs and networks for years!!! I'm very dissapointed - both in myself and linux.
Old 09-09-2003, 02:55 AM   #195
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Location: Malaysia
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A quote I've read somewhere... "Linux is user-friendly... It just chooses its friends more carefully."

I'm a full-blown Windows (all versions) support expert by profession, but an all-out Linux user at home. Every OS has its advantages and disadvantages. And many, many comments in this thread is just straightforwardly unfair towards Linux as well as Windows.

Linux was not designed to be a rival/replacement to Windows in the first place. So many people seem to forget this.

Just because you're used to Window's way of doing things doesn't make Linux a sucky OS just because it doesn't have My Computer or Network Neighbourhood, or boot into GUI by default. What would you think of a Linux user using Windows and typing ls -al or type man "control panel" at a command window? Would you call him an idiot for saying Windows is dumb because it doesn't even have decent man pages?

This goes vice-versa as well. The command line is not the answer to every computing question ever asked. So bear that in mind when a newbie ask where to type all those whizzbang commands you just told him... Or where the Start button is in blackbox. They're just not used to the environment yet... so cut the newbie some slack.

Also, there's no such thing as "simple"... it's either understand the system, and seek help from those who are familiar with it if you find it confusing... or don't use it at all... And if you decided not to use it, don't bitch at others who do, it will only make you look more idiotic... And I'm not pointing fingers at any particular member of this fine forum... so please do not take offense at my statements.

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