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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2004, 02:41 AM   #1861
jamyskis
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It's a fallacy to believe that Linux skills will no longer be in demand if the general population begins to use a simplified version of Linux. The open-source nature of the project means that different distributions are tailored to different users, commercial or free. I'm pretty much a beginner with Linux, but I do more or less know the ins and outs of my computer. I run SuSE 9.1 which is pretty easy to use for a beginner but offers the flexibility that a more experienced user would demand. This is the way Linux needs to go. With M$ taking more and more control about what can be done with Windows (FFS, you can't even access DOS now properly from XP), there is a decreasing scope for flexibility with it. Linux does allow this flexibility.

Linux needs to be accessible to users at both desktop and command line level and both interfaces need to be able to provide the basic functions to create a working system. As I mentioned, SuSE 9.1 does this well. An average user could have a working system which he or she could do word processing on, create presentations, or play the odd game and have it installed within a couple of hours without too much of a problem. Installation is fairly straightforward, and I can't understand why some power users bemoan the graphical interface for installation on some distros - the option is there to take it to bits if they so desire and the source code is available for all the programs to make it as they want from scratch if they want.

But please, if it is going to go the direction of idiot-proofness, please don't make it like Linspire.
 
Old 12-02-2004, 04:35 AM   #1862
baldy3105
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Tink ,

Don't like that particular metaphor mate. If I don't like something on Mandrake I look for something better to replace it with, I don't email Mandrake and tell them to come and redo the bit of code on my PC to suit me.

Lets say its like having ornaments in your garden. If you don't like em you don't go to the designer and say "oi, you're crap you are, do it like this!", although I agree with you that some people are guilty of this.

You could make your own or modify what you have if you have the requisite skills, some people don't and some people can't. ( I think hackers have no perspective on how unusual their mental capacity for programming is).

Most people will go and find something different that suits their tastes designed by someone else. There is nothing wrong, imo from saying to someone who's designing things you like "thats great! keep it up!".

I think that Linux technophiles can be guilty of saying "we LIKE garden gnomes, there's nothing wrong with garden gnomes, everyone should like garden gnomes and if they don't its their problem and they should learn to like em".

What I'm saying is that you can keep your garden gnomes, if you like em great! I've got no problems with their existence, but I fancy something else and will continue to encourage the people who are making something elses for me to choose from.

If you do all your daily computing from the command line then you get the respect you deserve! but don't tell people who aren't lucky enough to have your mental capacities that they have to do it your way as well or not at all, at least not when there are lots of your clever programming peers who are busy making efforts to give us choice, bless em!

Linux is replacing Windows. On a cost for features basis it is allready far superior. I'm confident that In just a few years it will be the better choice even if you had to pay the same!

Linux can be made idiot proof for idiots while leaving all those lovely bells and whistles just under the surface for those in the know.

All things to all people, I'm telling you, it has the power.


Last edited by baldy3105; 12-02-2004 at 04:37 AM.
 
Old 12-02-2004, 10:10 AM   #1863
sawsalimb
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Yes,I did,and in fact it was one of the first things I looked at. Am on a couple of mailing lists now,thank you. However,the groups mostly consist of IT professionals,and their meetings are an hour's drive through heavy traffic.

Let me bring up an idea that occurred to me last night. The key phrase is-

"ALL I WANT THIS THING TO DO IS....(insert appropriate function here)"

Last night I was attempting to resize and print out a couple of digital photographs. That's all I wanted to do. However,I finally found myself trying to use GIMP to do this,and not only is GIMP not a particularly user-friendly program(at least not by my standards),it was late,I was tired,and I finally quit in frustration after trying to find my way through the various help guides,and the like.

What I've found out about computers(and this is computers in general-not just computers running a Linux OS) is that very often,too much capability is offered. The casual,or beginning user is overwhelmed by what -to him or her-is a great deal of completely unfamiliar information. And casual users like myself will very often just quit trying in sheer frustration,because at some point,we have to go to sleep on account of having to wake up and go to work the next morning.

What could be very useful would be a package of low end programs,with very little in the way of excess capacities,that are intended for the beginner.(I know there are some out there-I just haven't had the time to find and install them,or figure out whether they're already on my computer).

For those of us who are interested in the very simple chores like I was mentioning above-just resizing a picture,or trying to type a letter and being able to include some bottom end graphics,etc,without having to figure out a full blown office spreadsheet program.

And learning is often a painful experience,so I know that there's going to be a lot of work involved,lol.
 
Old 12-02-2004, 02:08 PM   #1864
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by baldy3105
Tink ,

Don't like that particular metaphor mate. If I don't like something on Mandrake I look for something better to replace it with, I don't email Mandrake and tell them to come and redo the bit of code on my PC to suit me.

Lets say its like having ornaments in your garden. If you don't like em you don't go to the designer and say "oi, you're crap you are, do it like this!", although I agree with you that some people are guilty of this.

You could make your own or modify what you have if you have the requisite skills, some people don't and some people can't. ( I think hackers have no perspective on how unusual their mental capacity for programming is).

Most people will go and find something different that suits their tastes designed by someone else. There is nothing wrong, imo from saying to someone who's designing things you like "thats great! keep it up!".

I think that Linux technophiles can be guilty of saying "we LIKE garden gnomes, there's nothing wrong with garden gnomes, everyone should like garden gnomes and if they don't its their problem and they should learn to like em".

What I'm saying is that you can keep your garden gnomes, if you like em great! I've got no problems with their existence, but I fancy something else and will continue to encourage the people who are making something elses for me to choose from.
That was highly entertaining, I like the reference to Gnome as
being a matter of poor taste. You don't have to like my metaphor,
btw, but it's far more accurate than yours, because MOST of the time
people don't complain about aesthetic aspects (ugly garden gnomes)
but about functional aspects. Let's stick with the house. The thing is
(and will be) that some people build houses for free. Coming back to
your post and the mention of mandrake and moving on you're just
swapping one free house for another. You still gripe at members of
that free-house community about things in your house you don't like.

Now, those houses are well-designed, they're done in the way they
are done for a REASON. If you'd rather have the insincarator in the
shower than the kitchen sink (which is where it belongs), you of course
have the freedom to do your plumbing yourself (or get a plumber in to do
it for you).

Telling the people who build houses (or your neighbours who like the
insincarator in the sink rather than in the shower) that the insincarator
would be much more sensible in the shower because you could eat
your banana while you shower and flush down the peel which makes
you work more effectively....



Quote:
If you do all your daily computing from the command line then you get the respect you deserve! but don't tell people who aren't lucky enough to have your mental capacities that they have to do it your way as well or not at all, at least not when there are lots of your clever programming peers who are busy making efforts to give us choice, bless em!
I don't do all my work from the command-line, only
a fair bit, and namely the bit that makes computers
worth the while - I use my shells to automate tasks
that a windows-user would sit, point and click for
for half an hour. I'm not objecting to graphical env-
vironments, I make heavy use of a GUI browser
(driving LQ from links is a PITA and mrtg or nagios
output on a commandline-browser is pointless, too)
and occasionally do word-processing in OO or use
the gimp to edit pictures.

Quote:
Linux can be made idiot proof for idiots while leaving all those lovely bells and whistles just under the surface for those in the know.
Wrong approach ... make the idiots smarter. Toilet-
train them. Explain to them that socks don't belong
in the fridge, and that the toilet-bowl is NOT the place
to store your mince. If you can't train them, lock them
away ...


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 12-02-2004, 07:27 PM   #1865
qwijibow
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I have quad damage, and i just rail guned this thread to DEATH.. DIE !
 
Old 12-05-2004, 08:51 PM   #1866
mrcheeks
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qwijibow, do not bother with this thread. While reading it i am laughing, getting angry and crying at the same time.
 
Old 12-07-2004, 06:54 PM   #1867
Furlinastis
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i just installed slackware for the first time ... and I never used any kind of linux distro before ... and supposedly it's the hardest or one of the hardest distros to install and use ... and aside a very minor problem starting X (i had to use xorgsetup not xf86setup ... big deal right?) it was not very diffucult at all ... I think anyone having trouble with it is trying to use linux as if it were windows ... I switched from mac to windblows 2-3 years ago ... and it was a little confusing at first because it was a COMPLETELY different GUI but then I learned how to use the file system properly

so i don't think it needs to be any easier to use at all ... one just needs to adjust to a different file structure
 
Old 12-07-2004, 07:47 PM   #1868
qwijibow
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Quote:
qwijibow, do not bother with this thread. While reading it i am laughing, getting angry and crying at the same time.
replyed to it once,, a VERY LONG TIME AGO, when i first installed linux (how many years ago?)
and now whenever i use the search function to find all the threads im talking in, its always at the top.... im trapped,,, and now, so are you

Quote:
i just installed slackware for the first time ... and I never used any kind of linux distro before ... and supposedly it's the hardest or one of the hardest distros to install and use .
lol.. you have never heard of Gentoo or Linux From Scratch then ?

in LFS (linux from scratch) you start with a recue disk.. and a blank hard drive... then you build a minimal linux system, then use that minimal linux system to build a linux system... all compiled vie the ./configure && make && make install method... takes days to install !

but i agree, the more common linux distro's are easy enough.
 
Old 12-07-2004, 09:57 PM   #1869
Furlinastis
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Quote:
Originally posted by qwijibow
lol.. you have never heard of Gentoo or Linux From Scratch then ?
now i do ... lol:P ... that's just what one person said in another forum ...
 
Old 01-10-2005, 03:10 PM   #1870
rusty_slacker
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ok, i finally found my own damn thread. new examples:

permissions.

new hardware. I swapped out my cd-rom for a plextor cd-r drive, can't read any cds since.

but, there are some advantages, which you mentioned:

free apps that come with the distro

(sometimes) automated installs, which require nothing more than the clicks of next. if you think that's good.

Choice of gui. the windows gui and file manager suck, and konqueror and kde rock.

is this thread dead?
 
Old 01-10-2005, 05:13 PM   #1871
speel
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well il throw in my 2 cents into this thread ... well linux has a few problems that should night be there in the 1st place 1. is the installation of programs ... why must it be so hard yea i know there are a bunch of pkg managements out there but why cant it be one simple way to install this with out worrying about dependencys and all this other stuff? well actually thats my only complaint that i have .. other then that w00t linux
 
Old 01-10-2005, 06:17 PM   #1872
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by rusty_slacker
is this thread dead?
I wish :grin:

I don't even want to know how much time I've
wasted on this one ;)


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 01-11-2005, 02:30 AM   #1873
JZL240I-U
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>>MCSE: "Jestertay I new not how to spehl enshinear, and twotay me is won!"<<

Fie! Your german roots show .
 
Old 01-11-2005, 01:06 PM   #1874
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by JZL240I-U
>>MCSE: "Jestertay I new not how to spehl enshinear, and twotay me is won!"<<

Fie! Your german roots show :D.
I s'pose I can live with that! ;}


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 01-13-2005, 01:52 AM   #1875
JZL240I-U
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinkster
I s'pose I can live with that! ;}
Camouflage is everything .
 
  


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