Actually, I believe that virtual desktops were available as an add-on to Windows quite early (XP?) — you could download a patch from Microsoft — but hardly anyone knew about them and they couldn't be incorporated into the system because they made a lot of existing software crash.
I can't imagine doing without them. I presume those distros which don't set them up by default are a manifestation of the dumbing-down practiced to protect ex Windows users from getting confused, poor things! |
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It was third-party software rather than a Microsoft patch, though presumably there had to be some form of Windows-level support for the tool to work - and it worked well - I never had any issues with crashes. (I also remember being confused that, despite whatever Linux-based OS/DE I was trying back then having native support, the functionality wasn't anywhere as good as what I was using in Windows.) These days, I've got enough screens and don't often need to jump between contexts on a single system, so I rarely use virtual desktops for any OS, but that doesn't make it useless. |
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Just for kicks today I added another desktop to my Win10 install, booted Ubuntu 20.04 in WSL (Windows Sub-system for Linux) 2, and ran an xfce-4 desktop in an x server. Fun for a while switching back and forth but not really a necessity - for me at least. :) |
That's an interesting use of virtual desktops. A different desktop environment in each. I don't think we can do that in linux, and if we can, it'd be a waste of resources imo. But if I was running windows as primary OS, that sounds like really cool use of it. And windows never good for resource usage anyway, one of the main reasons some people (i.e me) use linux in the first place, so if I were runnig windows it'd be on some newfangled computer with tons of memory and cpu anyway (I'll no longer suffer using it on older PC now that I'm aware of linux, lightning fast even on machines a decade old...)
I guess Microsoft doing cool things these days. Already heard about wsl/wsl2 but didnt know you could run a desktop environment in a seperate virtual desktop. Very cool Microsoft, good on ya! |
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It seems everybody's trying to create the perfect Remote Desktop (or at least Remote Application) experience (Google Stadia, Nvidia GeForce NOW, Windows 365 Cloud PC), while the developers of the various Linux Desktop Environments are busy making sure Linux won't be able to compete in that space. |
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The valid point is that under X, clients have access to server events even when the client window is not in focus. That means client A can read keystrokes you're typing into client B, which is completely unnecessary and possibly a security issue, if you run untrusted applications (which people do). But in any desktop environment, some information is shared between all clients/applications, because that's the entire idea of the environment. For instance, did you know that if you copy some text in a document you're working on, every single active application on your computer, including any web pages that are currently open, can access that text and do with it whatever it wants? *scary music* Because of course they can; that's the entire point of having a clipboard. That's not a security issue, that's the clipboard doing what it's supposed to do. Quote:
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(For instance, the Wayland developers' default response to critics pointing out the lack of network transparency seems to be "duh, just use VNC.") |
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I read your post and wanted to disagree with you... But I can't because you're right. Quote:
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There are indeed some issues with the design of X. For historical reasons, confidentiality was not considered when the protocol was originally designed, and likewise no-one thought about the possibility of malicious clients connecting to the X server. The article referenced earlier in this thread made a big deal of X clients having access to all keyboard events. But surely, if a malicious application is actually running on your system, you have bigger problems than just the possibility of it snooping on your keystrokes. So how about instead of simply running the application on your system and having it connect to the X server, you run it inside a virtualized/containerized environment? Now the hypervisor can easily filter X events (or anything else, really), and as a bonus the application has very limited access to local storage. This would have been unthinkable in the 1970s and 1980s, but is easily achievable with any consumer-grade PC today. We're currently on version 11, revision 7 of the X protocol (X11R7). Should it be further improved upon? Certainly. I'd even agree that sufficient redesign is warranted that one should seriously consider sacrificing at least some backwards compatibility and bumping the major version number. But I really don't think getting rid of network transparency is a good idea. |
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https://archive.org/details/powertoys https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...on-windows-xp/ I'm not sure about on Vista or 7 - and even on XP it wasn't as 'seamless' as modern virtual desktops (e.g. in xfce or macOS) - the start menu/start bar still behaved as a system global if I remember right (this thread seems to confirm this: https://www.vistax64.com/threads/mul...desktops.3953/), and as DavidMcCann points out, it could cause things to crash (if I remember right running any Direct3D application in a window with DeskMan.exe running was playing with fire)). I'm sure there were third party applications that did this a lot better - I remember a few names like 'Display Fusion,' 'UltraMon,' and 'Window Blinds' but I couldn't point to any of them as specifically offering this functionality or not. Some quick web searching indicates that, as broughtonp suspected, the underlying API has been there, there's just not been much userland implementation (beyond the Microsoft 'Power Toys' tools) - see here: https://www.howtogeek.com/195962/unl...icrosoft-tool/ |
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As for saying Linux is a kernel...https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...eh-4175671773/ . You're not the only "Linux is a kernel" nitpicker on LQ. |
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Your argument is about "Linux" / GNU/Linux nomenclature - that "Linux" has never had this feature either - it has been a feature of various window managers and desktops. Those window managers and desktops are not specific to Linux. |
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