LinuxQuestions.org
Help answer threads with 0 replies.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 03-02-2023, 09:22 PM   #106
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,810

Rep: Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447

Yes, sundialsvcs, every day above ground is a good one. Just consider the alternatives. I don't fear nor obsess on death. I just wish it didn't last so damned long However if wishes were horses.... we'd all look like Monty Python Knights.
 
Old 03-03-2023, 04:58 AM   #107
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, Slarm64 & Android
Posts: 16,448

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342Reputation: 2342
Enorbet, this is tirseome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid
As for scientific premises being falsifiable, that's ridiculous. The origin of life on Earth by natural means (i.e. Without God) is a ridiculous and chemically impossible, but unfalsifiable notion. Scientists can't even put together a hypothesis = "Maybe it happened this way..." Much less can they put forward a proof.
To which you replied in post #100
Quote:
Absolutely untrue. Every year we get closer to a complete OOL.
Right then, post your references to the peer reviewed papers that prove Life originated spontaneously. As I'm a generous man, I'll even accept a detailed hypothesis that grasps all the nettles showing how life could have come into existence.

More than once I have asked for such,and you can never produce what doesn't exist, because the OOL by chemical means is an unfalsifiable falsehood. And large parts of science are built on that lie. So why put your hand out to be slapped? are you trolling again? As one of our comedians pointed out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maureen Potter
It's better to keep your mouth closed and look a fool, than to open your mouth - and prove it!
 
Old 03-03-2023, 05:45 AM   #108
hazel
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 7,679
Blog Entries: 19

Rep: Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
In all fairness it is possible that some Creator had a Master Plan that involved a 38.000.000.000 year preface to the climax of that asteroid to make it possible for humans to exist but that can't make sense to my Earthbound puny human brain. Everything I see in event progressions, one thing follows another, and only when "all the ducks are in a row".
Ah, some humility at last! I like that!.

Paul describes Christ, the new Adam, as having come "in the fullness of time", i.e. at what God considered the proper time and not before. Why should that not also have been true of the old Adam, our human race? Why must God be in a perpetual hurry just because you are?
 
Old 03-03-2023, 09:50 AM   #109
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,810

Rep: Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447
Yes, business_kid, "closer", not wrapped up in a bow as you seem to prefer. Your view seems to be "We can't explain how life sprung up, therefore God did it" It's the ultimate Deus Ex Machina. This just in - We don't know everything..... but we're gaining on it. Corollary: Supernatural superstition is counter-productive. Speaking of "counter" please cite a solid verifiable reference for

"The origin of life on Earth by natural means (i.e. Without God) is a ridiculous and chemically impossible,"

Note: I'm not saying Creation is impossible, just unverifiable and unlikely, while you insist that everything and everyone else is dead wrong except YOUR cult's specific creation myth. How utterly humble of you
 
Old 03-03-2023, 11:12 AM   #110
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,810

Rep: Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Ah, some humility at last! I like that!.
At last? I thought humility is infused in everything I write on philosophical subjects. and to some degree, even in the purely scientific. Hunmmans have come a very long way in a very short time and primarily due to Science and a tenacious nature to make up for our lack of tooth and nail... BUT, that's entirely on our own standards. There are quite a few species of animals, some still in existence today, that are essentially uncahnged for many millions of years. That's fact. What isn't yet a fact is how long humans will continue.

I don't see Science as being all-powerful or deserving of what some people in other threads refer to as "the religion of Science". The scientific method as practiced by actual humans if full of faults and only progresses in very small steps, with lots of abandoned paths, mistakes, and rabbit holes. It's just the time-tested best tool we have. At it's best, I see real Science and real scientists as inherently humble.
 
Old 03-03-2023, 12:04 PM   #111
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,688
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet
Paul describes Christ ...
If I may kindly ask, "who is this 'Saul/Paul' fellow, anyway? How did this single person, who proclaimed himself to be "an apostle" based only on an on-the-road encounter that only he related, subsequently become entitled to write the entire so-called "New Testament?"

It sure sounds like "Roman State Politics" to me!

When Emperor Constantine had finally had his fill of the "Church equals State" status quo which had existed at the time, he replaced the previous pantheon of "Roman gods" with a new system that was based on a regional cult that had emerged in an out-of-the-way and difficult-to-control province of the Empire. This cult was based on a 33-year-old kid who had once again claimed to be "the King of the Jews."

The entire story was based on the premise that he had "risen from the dead," although he never thereafter manifested himself (unlike Lazarus ...) in a clearly-physical form.

As I see it: Roma state politics. Just sayin' ...
 
Old 03-03-2023, 08:51 PM   #112
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,810

Rep: Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447
Ummm I never said that, sundialsvcs. That was hazel. I'm fully aware that the most likely reason the gospels describe Jesus differently is because those disciples spoke to different crowds.
 
Old 03-04-2023, 04:58 AM   #113
hazel
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 7,679
Blog Entries: 19

Rep: Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492Reputation: 4492
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I'm fully aware that the most likely reason the gospels describe Jesus differently is because those disciples spoke to different crowds.
It's worth pointing out that Paul's epistles came first. They are the earliest Christian documents that we have. The Jesus they testify to is the earliest Jesus that anyone knew about outside of Palestine. The gospels were written a few decades later, towards the end of the first century, when the original eyewitnesses were dying out and the world (contrary to expectation) still hadn't come to an end.
 
Old 09-03-2023, 03:52 PM   #114
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,786

Rep: Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083Reputation: 2083
New York Times Opinion Guest Essay: The Story of Our Universe May Be Starting to Unravel

Quote:
But that [the assumption that scientific laws don't change over time is] precisely the sort of assumption we might have to start questioning in order to figure out what's wrong with the standard model. One possibility, raised by the physicist Lee Smolin and the philosopher Roberto Mangabeira Unger, is that the laws of physics can evolve and change over time. Different laws might even compete for effectiveness. An even more radical possibility, discussed by the physicist John Wheeler, is that every act of observation influences the future and even the past history of the universe. (Dr. Wheeler, working to understand the paradoxes of quantum mechanics, conceived of a "participatory universe" in which every act of observation was in some sense a new act of creation.)
I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I remain very skeptical about these sorts of proposals.
 
Old 09-03-2023, 04:45 PM   #115
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,810

Rep: Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447Reputation: 4447
While I realize that what passes for Journalism since the Age of the Internet many writers have learned that lurid headlines create views. It's an evolution of the Print and TV journalism credo , "If it bleeds, it leads" so it isn't new, it's just rampant. In this case where "Guest Opinion" is followed by "The Story of Our Universe May Be Starting to Unravel" and further with the introductory line of

Quote:
But that [the assumption that scientific laws don't change over time is] precisely the sort of assumption we might have to start questioning in order to figure out what's wrong with the standard model.
misrepresents Science, our body of knowledge, and reveals the author's lack of understanding of The Scientific Method. Science, expects even depends on updates that refine views often and occasionally discards previous theories. This has changed a bit over time as the base understanding of the fundamental Physics, how things work, even if only for the past few million tears, grew and became interactively communicated where one branch quickly learns what another has done and learned.

It's very important to note that Einstein's theories on SpaceTime and the nature of Gravity did NOT toss out Newton's whole cloth. We still use Newton today far outside and beyond what Isaac could imagine. Even if we at some point in the future find evidence that what was accepted as Law is altered greatly especially in the form of dynamic, changing Physics as opposed to static, locked in Physics, that will not, can not, just toss out the basics as we understand them today any more that Einstein tossed out Newton.

That said, the way Science advances, refinement is absolutely guaranteed. The Sun isn't going to just one day start revolving around the Earth, things won't fall up down here planetside, and whatever we discover new, that there was an event in which our Universe went from a hot, dense maelstrom of energy and expanded and cooled to it's present state (still expanding today) that will remain true. After all, we literally have photographs of it. Any future discovery must contend with that reality.
 
Old 02-19-2024, 07:11 AM   #116
mjolnir
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 824

Rep: Reputation: 106Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
...Voyager 1 launched 45 years ago and after spending all that time in the most hostile environment imaginable (Hell has nothing on Deep Space) has been coaxed back to delivering useful data from hundreds of millions of miles away. ...
Unfortunately the craft seems to be having trouble again:
"Recently, the TMU began transmitting a repeating pattern of ones and zeros as if it were “stuck.” After ruling out other possibilities, the Voyager team determined that the source of the issue is the FDS. This past weekend the team tried to restart the FDS and return it to the state it was in before the issue began, but the spacecraft still isn’t returning useable data." December 12, 2023 https://blogs.nasa.gov/sunspot/2023/...er-1-computer/
 
Old 02-19-2024, 08:55 AM   #117
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,688
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Yes, sundialsvcs, every day above ground is a good one. Just consider the alternatives. I don't fear nor obsess on death. I just wish it didn't last so damned long However if wishes were horses.... we'd all look like Monty Python Knights.
Death? "'Tis but a flesh wound!"
 
Old 02-19-2024, 08:58 AM   #118
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,688
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947Reputation: 3947
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
It's worth pointing out that Paul's epistles came first. They are the earliest Christian documents that we have. The Jesus they testify to is the earliest Jesus that anyone knew about outside of Palestine. The gospels were written a few decades later, towards the end of the first century, when the original eyewitnesses were dying out and the world (contrary to expectation) still hadn't come to an end.
I have many interesting books on subjects such as "The Quest for the Historical Jesus." And, the origins of both canonical, non-canonical and "heretical" gospels. As well as this very strange person named Paul.

It is really quite remarkable how little we actually know about "Jesus," compared to other religious keystone figures. Of course, it is unremarkable to consider just how many "copyists" over these many centuries may have had a "hand" in it. These ancient documents "simply are what they are." And, I prefer to read them as such. Knowing, and accepting, that other people feel [very ...] differently.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-19-2024 at 08:59 AM.
 
Old 03-07-2024, 05:26 PM   #119
mjolnir
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 824

Rep: Reputation: 106Reputation: 106
NSFVoyager2
@NSFVoyager2
"Today I completed 17,000 days of operations, extending my streak as the longest operating spacecraft. I say that with a tinge of sadness, as sister Voyager 1 (launched 16 days _after_ me) still struggles with a malfunction that prevents any downlink of science or engineering data.
3:23 PM · Mar 7, 2024" https://twitter.com/NSFVoyager2/stat...50722057248895
 
Old 03-14-2024, 11:38 AM   #120
mjolnir
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 824

Rep: Reputation: 106Reputation: 106
Still some hope for Voyager 1: "NASA Voyager

@NASAVoyager
An update on my twin #Voyager1: The team recently sent a "poke" to prompt V1's flight data system (FDS) and received a signal that differed from past attempts. A DSN engineer helped decode this signal, which may contain clues to the source of the issue:" https://twitter.com/NASAVoyager/stat...44155853570559

"NASA Engineers Make Progress Toward Understanding Voyager 1 Issue"
https://blogs.nasa.gov/sunspot/
 
  


Reply

Tags
jwst


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What are the consequences of uninstalling yum? dr_zayus69 Linux - Software 6 02-02-2006 05:55 AM
Software RAID: consequences of linux autodetect & persistent-superblock with reiserfs cbonar Linux - Hardware 0 01-08-2005 03:43 PM
root ftp consequences DigitalSmash Linux - Security 5 12-15-2004 03:24 AM
Turning off the PnP for SIOCSIFFLAGS error hack... Consequences? SparceMatrix Linux - Hardware 0 09-05-2004 11:02 AM
Deleting GNOME.. the consequences Stephanie Linux - General 3 01-28-2002 01:35 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration