LinuxQuestions.org
Download your favorite Linux distribution at LQ ISO.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 01-29-2024, 08:17 AM   #16
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451

Return golf balls? Seriously? At that cost? and just to prove to the handful of doubters that act as if they are experts at photography on the moon, imagine the Van Allen Belts are instead a continuous surrounding globe of constant, deadly radiation, and deny the obvious to everyone else, including political enemies. Shoot! Apollo 18 and 19 even after the landing module had been extended for a full 3 day stay for even more serious science couldn't get funding and were scrubbed.

Consider how much it would cost you to plan and execute a simple automobile trip of half a million miles. Seriously, think about that for a moment. Now make that an underwater trip of 500,000 miles. Would you go to such cost and effort to embark on such a trip with the main goal to bring back a Galapagos Finch to prove to any doubters that they actually lived there for Darwin to study?

Most importantly consider that during all the intrigue, subterfuge and sabre-rattling of the Cold War scientists were castigated by government politicians for ignoring all that petty simian territorial chest-beating because scientists saw beyond petty squabbles to actually work to improve Humanity, inspire the spirit of education and exploration, and raise the bar on what a human can do, see and understand. What future do you prefer?
 
Old 01-29-2024, 11:31 AM   #17
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
I thought perhaps a sweet palette cleanser might be in order celebrating space exploration and cosmology.

If you have trouble with the Einstein Ring image converted from .avif to .png or would like to read the fascinating story behind it go here....


Einstein Ring Discovery

It's not Japanese. It's not soft landing so it is OT, but it is fascinating and beautiful. If you're religious you might recall the reported words of Alexander Graham Bell upon the first vocal transmission. It is full of wonder and awe.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6n18dgOC-Gallagher_HERO.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	34.0 KB
ID:	42496  

Last edited by enorbet; 01-29-2024 at 11:36 AM.
 
Old 01-29-2024, 02:12 PM   #18
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949
Just return one of those "golf balls" from the Moon. Let me watch the entire robotic mission which lands nearby, sends a probe out along the lunar surface, actually finds(!) a golf ball, and picks it up. You told us that there were dozens of them. Show me a robotic probe actually finding and picking up just one.
 
Old 01-29-2024, 03:03 PM   #19
michaelk
Moderator
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 25,820

Rep: Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960Reputation: 5960
FYI the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter has taken pictures of the Apollo 11 landing site and FWIW between the original lunar landing and the orbiter pictures found the golf balls (2) and measured their distance. Of course the LRO pictures must be a fake as was the originals.
 
Old 01-29-2024, 05:08 PM   #20
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
Sundialsvcs I don't get it. First, where did I ever say dozens of golf balls? They don't really interest me enough to comment on them beyond noting IIRC that event was one of the personal allowances for the astronauts. I don't even care enough to check . It's unimportant absent some measuring devices. It was a lark.

So what is it with you and the golf balls? Why bother with them next to the single greatest scientific and exploration achievement of all time so far? While I must respect your right to your opinion, I also reserve my right to note that it is a slap-in-the-face disservice to not only your countrymen but all Mankind to so bullheadedly deny any and all actual evidence, and as I understand it based on an opinion from watching TV as a child. Curiouser and curiouser...

Last edited by enorbet; 01-29-2024 at 05:14 PM.
 
Old 01-29-2024, 05:26 PM   #21
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
Oh well, now that I've claimed my disinterest, naturally my crazy brain couldn't leave it alone so here it is....a photo of the area in which the 2 (hidden in a sock) golf balls were located.

Full story, or one of them anyway, is at



Golf Story
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	221201113455-apollo-moon-golf-locations-02.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	91.5 KB
ID:	42499  
 
Old 01-30-2024, 07:28 PM   #22
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 10,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949Reputation: 3949
@michaelk: If you know where those golf balls are, then it will be a very simple matter to construct a robotic-probe mission to drop down precisely on top of several of them. It might be a little bit more difficult to make it a "two-way mission" to bring some of them back, but that would be "even nicer."

I'm a firm subscriber to the opinion that "the Myth of Apollo" has turned into one of the worst impediments to our exploration of the heavenly body that is easily closest to us. Other nations, who do not have our "hubris," are working very hard to explore using robotic probes, and just look at how utterly difficult it is turning out to be. Three nations launched missions at about the same time, and only one of the three was fully successful. We all have a very long way to go. There is no value at all in one of the "blind men" saying to his fellows, "Bah, humbug. Easy peasy. I have already seen the elephant."

A critical problem is: "the speed of light." You cannot control your lander "in real time." You also cannot do things like: "Tranquility base here, the Eagle has landed ... (moments later) Roger that, we copy you on the ground." It's a whole lot harder than that, when such an exchange is physically impossible. This is unfortunately precisely the reason that several of the recent missions have crashed. We have a very long way to go.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-30-2024 at 07:38 PM.
 
Old 01-31-2024, 03:55 AM   #23
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
It might be a little bit more difficult


Here's a perspective to consider

-------------------- NASA Budget ----------------------


Calendar Year ------ Nominal Dollars (10e6) ------ Percentage of Federal Budget


-----1969 -------------------- 4,251 ------------------------------- 2.31%

-----1970 -------------------- 3,752 ------------------------------- 1.92%

-----2020 -------------------- 22,629 ------------------------------ 0.48%

Note: The dollar numbers are not adjusted for inflation in current dollars, making percentages easier to calculate


Sadly the vast decline from even a paltry beginning is only part of the story. Enter politics which always raises it's ugly head whenever sufficient popularity and/or spinoff money get involved. Once the Defense Contractor Welfare money ramped up and entire new and prosperous business popped up and Porker Politicians saw a means of puffing up their local economy (thus improving re-election odds) and 600,000,000 TV watchers of Apollo 11 worldwide definitely constituted popularity. The above chart is not tracking the budgets for Grumman, Boeing etc. not to mention that the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marines all had a vested interest in and around ICBMs (the source and destination of early crossover rocket design) up until around 1980.

One has only to consider the recent speech by former NASA administrator, Mike Griffin, to get a perspective on how powerful and seductive those political billion$ are. He stated that NASA needs to do away with dependence on SpaceX, Blue Origin, etc. in fact ANY private independents and go back to the "business as usual" format that has been a horrendous boondoggle sinkhole like Artemis being required to use Space Shuttle technology provided of course by the good ol' boys at Grumman, Boeing etc... 'cuz yeah, they have been so innovative and game-changing successful. I mean, why actually get there soon when you can drag it out and keep those welfare checks for billon$ coming in?

This is why it isn't "so gosh darned easy" to retrieve some incidental golf balls just so a handful of pseudo skeptics have less to rant about.


BTW Time delay for communication between Earth and Moon is 1 1/4 seconds, not a problem for human speech but can be critical for computing. Furthermore it isn't a problem for TV broadcasters who used tape delay to "correct" the lag so as not to bore viewers.
 
Old 01-31-2024, 04:09 AM   #24
_blackhole_
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2023
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 117

Rep: Reputation: 100Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
While I must respect your right to your opinion, I also reserve my right to note that it is a slap-in-the-face disservice to not only your countrymen but all Mankind to so bullheadedly deny any and all actual evidence, and as I understand it based on an opinion from watching TV as a child. Curiouser and curiouser...
I don't think leveraging nationalism helps here. Evidence and data should be presented.

Unfortunately with the Apollo missions you do have that typical scenario where no one of any repute is going to risk their reputation/career/(life) by speaking out. That makes gathering any meaningful data from credible sources rather difficult.

sundialsvcs clearly comes from the position that there was a conspiracy, so your challenging of that conspiracy with "official data" or records from NASA, etc is rather senseless.

One common angle is that the Russians or Chinese, for example, would have blown the whistle on the whole thing. This does not constitute evidence of the moon landings however and is rather flawed argumentation, it does not dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy. If someone is going to believe in a conspiracy, there's little you can do to challenge that. Conspiracies gain momentum and spread, simply because government/establishment is corrupt and because there is room for doubt, or the "facts" don't fully stand up to interrogation, and the government/establishment has already been shown to cover things up, etc. When documents are "declassified" we see some, but by no means all of this, but it is usually quickly glossed over and the public just move on, as with any political scandal.

While government is so corrupt, this will go on - and perhaps little distractions like UFOs, or faked moon landings, or whatever else, provide a nice distraction from what's really going on...

Last edited by _blackhole_; 01-31-2024 at 04:18 AM.
 
Old 02-01-2024, 07:28 AM   #25
mjolnir
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 824

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 106Reputation: 106
Been gone awhile and drop in to see that this thread has picked up a little. I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense to me, Putin and Xi would soil themselves at the chance to discredit the Moon landing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _blackhole_ View Post
...One common angle is that the Russians or Chinese, for example, would have blown the whistle on the whole thing. This does not constitute evidence of the moon landings however and is rather flawed argumentation, it does not dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy. ...
 
Old 02-01-2024, 09:47 AM   #26
_blackhole_
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2023
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 117

Rep: Reputation: 100Reputation: 100
My point is that it's hardly evidence. You're effectively stating that the US went to the moon, because if they'd faked it the Russians and Chinese, for example, would have exposed it.

There is surely evidence enough of the authenticity of the Apollo missions without resorting to that?
 
Old 02-01-2024, 01:19 PM   #27
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
@_blackhole - I disagree. First off I noted the laser reflectors for which no robot existed in 1969 to place as accurately as required and which are still to this day available to anyone with the equipment (already thousands of instances), the orbital satellite photos of the lander and the vehicle tracks, all of which are objectively repeatable and falsifiable, and not repeatable but available for analysis and only slightly less falsifiable, we have that not only di the US cold war enemies find nothing to discredit, specifically they, as well as alllies, tracked tye flights by radio and radar. When all Pro and all possible Con evidence agree on the same outcome, that's pretty solid evidence whether you subjectively consider that objective or circumstantial.

Unlkess I misunderstand your words, it seems your position is that there exists no objective, falsifiable evidence and that is patently and provably false. In fact, you seem to asct as if the only objective evidence is "the fox guarding the henhouse", namely NASA, and that is not only false but broad brush libelous not to mention defamation of character on perhaps hundreds of thousands of contributors.
 
Old 02-01-2024, 04:07 PM   #28
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,787

Rep: Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084Reputation: 2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by _blackhole_ View Post
Evidence and data should be presented.
Can you explain what standard of evidence you are using? Give some hypothetical examples of something that would be convincing? (By the way, I don't believe sundialsvcs claim that he would accept golf balls as evidence, given what he's rejected before. What is the story behind this supposed to be: NASA has maintained the moon landing hoax for 50+ years, but somehow the cost of getting a couple of golf balls would be too much to keep it going??)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
Putin and Xi would soil themselves at the chance to discredit the Moon landing.
I think the reference was more about Brezhnev and Mao, but yeah.
 
Old 02-03-2024, 12:13 AM   #29
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,813

Rep: Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451Reputation: 4451
Overheard in Gotham City

(Commissioner Gordon) - "Bruce, any ideas on why Batman has not answered the last dozen Bat Signals?"

(Bruce Wayne) - "Well, Commissioner, I assume there is the cost of jet fuel for the Batmobile and then there is dry cleaning the cape...."
 
Old 02-08-2024, 09:31 AM   #30
_blackhole_
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2023
Distribution: FreeBSD
Posts: 117

Rep: Reputation: 100Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Unlkess I misunderstand your words, it seems your position is that there exists no objective, falsifiable evidence and that is patently and provably false. In fact, you seem to asct as if the only objective evidence is "the fox guarding the henhouse", namely NASA, and that is not only false but broad brush libelous not to mention defamation of character on perhaps hundreds of thousands of contributors.
You seem to like to put words into people's mouths.

I said that the claim "we went to the moon, because our enemies have yet to claim/prove that we didn't" is utterly absurd as the only piece of commonly presented evidence of the Apollo landings. That should be a last resort, not the first and if you're resorting to that, it's looking desperate and only further fueling the conspiracy claims. It's as absurd as "golf balls".
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
anyway to adjust mp3 file loudness with audacity speedily : soft or (soft + loud intermixed) mp3 file andrewysk Linux - Software 7 08-23-2021 02:34 PM
[SOLVED] IS some kind of spy soft or virus soft using my port 56152? luofeiyu Linux - Server 4 08-18-2015 08:06 PM
The soft limit is not very soft tesla75 Linux - General 2 06-22-2015 09:28 AM
I'm over the moon titanium_geek LinuxQuestions.org Member Success Stories 2 06-11-2003 05:46 PM
Moon Phase im Mandrake 8.1 Michael Jones Linux - Newbie 4 07-08-2002 03:04 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration