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Old 09-27-2017, 01:17 AM   #1
jamison20000e
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Question Isn't it ironic how the polar ice caps melting (s1e7 BBC's Frozen Planet:)


is making it easier for big businesses to gain faster shipping routes and access vast amounts of oil?

Just watching episode 7 season 1 of Frozen Planet...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-27-2017 at 05:43 AM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 01:51 PM   #2
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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And save burning oil to transport loads of goods.!!!
 
Old 09-27-2017, 03:30 PM   #3
jamison20000e
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Define "goods?"

Add: aquaponics.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-27-2017 at 03:41 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 03:49 PM   #4
michaelk
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods

A you saw in the BBC report the northwest passage is a shortcut between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans through the Canadian Arctic and provides direct shipping route from Europe to Asia. Normally ships have to go through the Panama and the Suez.

Last edited by michaelk; 09-27-2017 at 03:51 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 03:50 PM   #5
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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Aren't there trade routes openning up via the NW Passage that would have had to use the Panama Canal or go round S America??
 
Old 09-27-2017, 04:01 PM   #6
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Yes, but is there still a dispute who if anyone owns the waters?
 
Old 09-27-2017, 04:31 PM   #7
jamison20000e
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
Good try, they even "define" economics but I'm not buying it...

I own the waters.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 04:32 PM   #8
jamison20000e
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Got a dollar, will sell you some...
 
Old 09-27-2017, 06:50 PM   #9
jefro
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Wonder what the climate load was making the film?

The weather is affected by humans, ALL humans. Not one of us is innocent. The second part is that no one knows the billions of things that could be affecting the weather. The nuclear earths core is drastically moving and has made a huge effect over a few billion years.

Study the wings of a butterfly and you'd understand why a programmer decided if he had 1000 years to study weather, he could predict tomorrow's weather but no further.

Last edited by jefro; 09-27-2017 at 06:53 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
michaelk
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LOL... Now that is funny,
 
Old 09-27-2017, 07:53 PM   #11
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Wonder what the climate load was making the film?

The weather is affected by humans, ALL humans. Not one of us is innocent.
Absolutely agree. A relative who was and is probably still an entrenched Human Caused Global Climate Change denier was quoting Rush Limbaugh to me regarding the impact of cow produced methane as a ludicrous fantasy and an example of "just how far Climate Change people will go". Having once owned a cow manure fueled methane generator that took surprisingly little to produce quantities of "natural gas", I asked him if he was aware of just how many cows are in existence these days. It's a staggering number.

Then I said even removing cows from the mix, "have you ever considered even just internal combustion exhaust?" Starting roughly in 1900 and growing like a virus until by 1930 billions of tons of carbon locked up underground for millions of years were being exhausted into the atmosphere every year and growing geometrically every year since. "Do you suppose 100 years of that has had zero impact?" Yes, all of us, each and every one is part of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
The second part is that no one knows the billions of things that could be affecting the weather. The nuclear earths core is drastically moving and has made a huge effect over a few billion years.
Almost. Since 2007, upon the highly publicized destruction and closing of Japan's nuclear facility due to Earthquake, Japan has been able to gather extremely powerful and accurate data on Earth's core engaging in nuclear fission. Over 10 years the accuracy has become very precise and it is now known that the Earth creates some 20 terawatts of heat in this manner. The core does spin but otherwise does not move. There's no place to go. Obviously also this fission is distributed and stable or runaway would occur. Thus it's effect has been a constant since very shortly after the earth formed over 4 billion years ago. So it is not at all likely to be a factor in Global Climate Change.

If you'd like to look deeper there are many solid scientific articles on this subject. Here's one from --- Scientific American ---

Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Study the wings of a butterfly and you'd understand why a programmer decided if he had 1000 years to study weather, he could predict tomorrow's weather but no further.
Not at all. Not only are butterfly wings well understood, for the past 5 years they are being "customized" by scientists using CRISPR. Weather prediction has become extremely reliable out to 5 days from the present, especially large scale weather. Whether or not a specific village will get 4 inches or 5 inches of rain from a given storm is a little looser but the County is on firm ground and the State, easier still.

We have an immense amount of data covering millions of years of climate fluctuations and now, with satellites, the growth in data is astounding and obviously very important. Just as above with local weather, generalities are solid while specifics are more difficult, but the generalities are a major concern already and one of the specifics we don't have nailed down is "tipping points". So far the rate of change has exceeded the wildest claims which is why so much money is being spent on study. We NEED to study more as there is little penalty if it is all silliness (with no respectable, objective study saying so) but an unimaginable risk if even the most conservative concerns are accurate.

Last edited by enorbet; 09-27-2017 at 07:55 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 08:19 PM   #12
sundialsvcs
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Somehow, I really don't think that "the Northwest Passage" will ever become a viable trade route, neither in our lifetime nor in a great many lifetimes to come.

However, it would be quite interesting if a competing, parallel canal were constructed, e.g. through Nicaragua, as has been quite-seriously proposed.

Another equally-serious proposal, of course, is railroads. Virtually all "cargo of interest" these days is packaged into standardized shipping containers which are specifically designed for intermodal transportation: they can be swiftly moved to a railroad train or to a highway trailer-truck. One quite-serious proposal now contemplates automated, "driverless," transportation of these containers across two-or-more parallel (rail-based) land routes. If their plans come to fruition, it would actually be practical to unload these containers from a ship on one side, then swiftly(!) move them to the other side, and reload them for continued transport.

"The original concept of the Panama Canal," after all, was devised in the era of stevedores.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 09-27-2017 at 08:22 PM.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 08:24 PM   #13
jefro
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The earths core is a nuclear powered ocean that also affects the magnetic poles. Has nothing to do with nuclear electric generation. Nuclear powered electric is possibly the only green thing way to make electricity short of the thermal solar steam generators. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...f-earths-heat/


The wings of a butterfly means that the weather in the US can be affected by the wings of a butterfly in China.

I tend to not believe the so called scientists. Aren't they the ones who pushed asbestos and MTBE and GMO's and introduced invasive species and so on and so forth? I doubt they are qualified to say what is causing anything.

Last edited by jefro; 09-27-2017 at 08:28 PM.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 01:23 AM   #14
jamison20000e
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Different planets offer peeks at the many stages n☠t "we" face...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-28-2017 at 07:28 AM.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 03:06 AM   #15
jamison20000e
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Not to say any 2 are the same but over eons they change as well come into and cease existence.

At some point in recorded history they'll be thankful there was deep snow (here) to study...
 
  


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