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Old 02-01-2017, 01:46 PM   #16
sundialsvcs
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Understand that all of this is science's version of a "creation myth." No one really knows.

We think that we are peering at things that happened untold-long ago. We think that we are seeing evidence of something that consumes everything. We think that we understand how space and time works in this context.

However, this is all conjecture, because we still can't set foot off our one-and-only planet ... and we haven't even begun to understand it!

Therefore: people will tell you lots of things, and then other people will promptly disagree with those people, and so on ad scientificum infinitum.

"Plan Accordingly.™"
 
Old 02-01-2017, 02:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Understand that all of this is science's version of a "creation myth." No one really knows.
"Plan Accordingly.™"
to make that a true-er statement it should read
Quote:
Understand that all of this is the scientist that are atheist version of a "creation myth." No one really knows.
"Plan Accordingly.™"
MO of course maybe that group of people in India that worship rats believe in the big bang theory too. Though I am not flying out there to ask any of them to find out.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 06:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post
Of course maybe that group of people in India that worship rats believe in the big bang theory too. Though I am not flying out there to ask any of them to find out.
I am not personally aware of any religion in India which "worships rats," and it seems most-unkind of you to suggest it. Nevertheless, I did not mean in any way to "equate" science and (any ...) religion in this matter.

Instead, I simply wished to point out "the hard limits of human understanding." Although we theorize as best we possibly can, "we are condemned by Fate to 'theory.'" We can never ... (yet!!) ... "go there and find out." Neither can we go back in time to the beginning of time.

"Is there a light at the end of the black-hole tunnel?" We don't know. "Is there a black hole at all?" Ditto. Do we 'think so?' Yes. Do we 'know?' No.

Quote:
"But also, a bit of common ground between Religion and Science." We are, as human beings, irresistibly driven to confront "The Great Kahuna Questions.™" We should acknowledge that there are many ways to do these things, and that none of them should properly be condemned at the expense of any other. Likewise, I cautiously suggest, "none of them should be presented as 'irrefutably true (nor false).'" Because, I think: "in this, we err."

And maybe something else: "Religion is not Science, and Science is not Religion, and(!) The Two Are Not(!!) Mutually Exclusive!"
Like the bumper-sticker says: "Coexist!"

The full scope of potential human understanding with regard to these things is ... extremely broad. Let us therefore take full advantage of it all. Let's fully exploit whatever avenue(s) we prefer, without condemning 'everyone else' to our own particular version of Perdition. (If we seriously try, we'll discover that we actually can ... and that all of our respective discourses will be the much better for it.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-01-2017 at 06:58 PM.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 07:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Like the bumper-sticker says: "Coexist!"
I used to think that way too.

I don't have any bumper stickers b/c I don't want to be identified as being for or against anything (camo). If I did have one though it would read: Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

Besides, it's not like any of it really matters. According to Elon Musk and a bunch of other goobers it's all just a big simulation anyway.

Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? High-profile physicists and philosophers gathered to debate whether we are real or virtual—and what it means either way
 
Old 02-01-2017, 07:26 PM   #20
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Hey ... we're all, in one way or another, "lying flat on our backs in a pasture somewhere, looking up at the incredible yet unfathomable stars."
 
Old 02-01-2017, 08:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I am not personally aware of any religion in India which "worships rats," and it seems most-unkind of you to suggest it.
So what you are telling me is that just because of your ignorance of a truth you think it is unkind of me to speak of this truth?


Welcome to the Rat Temple | National Geographic


Rat temple in India. The Temple of rats!

Quote:
Nevertheless, I did not mean in any way to "equate" science and (any ...) religion in this matter.
you are the one that sparked this conversation and a line of thought. Just because you or one does not want to broaden their minds to a thought and where it can lead them. then if everyone thought like you. You would not even be suggesting what you have about black holes and big bang theories.


Just because you seem to not be able to see the collation between science and Christianity, and maybe some what others call other Religions is not my fault.

By your question I thought that perhaps you had the ability to think outside of your head.

But I can already see to actually get a intellectual conversation out of you one might be hard pressed for this to take place.


Yet here you are, you speak of the big bang theory and others. Untruths - only theories and that is ok to speak about. But I speak a truth and you tell me it is an UN-Kind act and your justification for that judgment towards me is made out of ignorance on your own part.


I speak a truth and add to it in relationship to what you spoke of regarding science, then the big bang theory which directly is a belief system that contradicts mine and you tell me I do not have the same rights as you to speak my mind on such matters.

as if your conversation in here is only for them like you small and closed minded.

why did you even start this conversation if you were not even going to try and learn something?


Do I got to psychoanalyze you? you might not like what theory I come up with.

by your line of thought out of ignorance of a truth it is unkind to speak of such truths.

Quote:
Instead, I simply wished to point out "the hard limits of human understanding."
it seems your human understanding is very limited.


Quote:
Although we theorize as best we possibly can, "we are condemned by Fate to 'theory.'" We can never ... (yet!!) ... "go there and find out." Neither can we go back in time to the beginning of time.
you one with limited thinking are trying to school me?


Quote:

"Is there a light at the end of the black-hole tunnel?" We don't know. "Is there a black hole at all?" Ditto. Do we 'think so?' Yes. Do we 'know?' No.
again as I stated before the contents of your header question does not even reflect what you spoke of in your post. the two had no relationship to each other. you asked about a black hole then speak of other things other than a black hole.

Now you're telling me that if I speak of something remotely related to anything you spoke of in this post even Though it is a truth is an UNKIND act on my part????


Quote:

Like the bumper-sticker says: "Coexist!"
I do not even think you understand any of that ..

Quote:


The full scope of potential human understanding with regard to these things is ... extremely broad.

that is a rather bold statement coming from someone that mis-judges others out of their own self admitted ignorance of a truth.

Quote:



Let us therefore take full advantage of it all. Let's fully exploit whatever avenue(s) we prefer, without condemning 'everyone else' to our own particular version of Perdition. (If we seriously try, we'll discover that we actually can ... and that all of our respective discourses will be the much better for it.)
you contradict yourself

first you tell me doing just that in here by using a truth is an unkind act now your saying to go ahead and exploit whatever avenue we prefer.

I bet that is nothing coming out of your head even it is just a quote by some other brainless person.


just because you may be able to answer a question about Linux again you are NO ONE to try and school me on matters of the human ....

Last edited by BW-userx; 02-01-2017 at 08:24 PM.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 08:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Hey ... we're all, in one way or another, "lying flat on our backs in a pasture somewhere, looking up at the incredible yet unfathomable stars."
The more intelligent among us looked at the ground before laying down, cows and other animals tend to leave little packages lying around.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 08:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Going into a tangent for a bit - wormholes always fascinated me , and I have seen movies like Event Horizon (didn't do so well at the box office) - but I found it pretty good, and it touched upon creating 'short cuts' in the universe to travel vast distances - since actually achieving light speed is most likely impossible. The science behind a wormhole is sound, and the mathematics behind it confirms this, although I have always wondered if a wormhole is traveled through - yes in theory you are ripping a hole in the fabric of space from point A to point B - but how do you actually KNOW that you are going to your intended destination, and not some other place, or time or even a different dimension. Fascinating stuff actually.
Funny, right after reading the latest posts on this thread I logged into FB and found this article about wormholes. Apparently all you need to be able to jump through a wormhole (in case they do exist) is a ring of negative mass so you can get through the black hole without getting crushed. The only "small" problem is that such material doesn't seem to exist.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 09:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odiseo77 View Post
Funny, right after reading the latest posts on this thread I logged into FB and found this article about wormholes. Apparently all you need to be able to jump through a wormhole (in case they do exist) is a ring of negative mass so you can get through the black hole without getting crushed. The only "small" problem is that such material doesn't seem to exist.
Massive amounts of untold energy is still required to keep a wormhole open, and stable - the problem is also the theory states that it would be a few millimeters to centimeters big, so it would not be practical anyways. Again even if say such hurdles are overcome, nobody can really be sure where the other end leads to, and perhaps not just where but when does it lead to? For all you know you could just end up in the exact position you came from, only days, weeks, months years either in the future or past. Or as the movie Event Horizon put it - end up in a dimension of pure chaos and evil.

Things that were science fiction are mathematically plausible. First blackholes, theories also about whiteholes, etc. I also find the multiverse theory intriguing - every possible outcome does actually happen, a decision you take or not take is played out in every infinite universe in a multiverse. The mathematics say it is plausible, though that makes no difference, because if you were to even glimpse the equations, without being versed into theoretical physics and extremely advanced maths, you wouldn't know what the hell you are looking at, let alone make heads or tails of the equations.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 02-01-2017 at 09:20 PM.
 
Old 02-01-2017, 09:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Massive amounts of untold energy is still required to keep a wormhole open, and stable - the problem is also the theory states that it would be a few millimeters to centimeters big, so it would not be practical anyways. Again even if say such hurdles are overcome, nobody can really be sure where the other end leads to, and perhaps not just where but when does it lead to? For all you know you could just end up in the exact position you came from, only days, weeks, months years either in the future or past. Or as the movie Event Horizon put it - end up in a dimension of pure chaos and evil.

Things that were science fiction are mathematically plausible. First blackholes, theories also about whiteholes, etc. I also find the multiverse theory intriguing - every possible outcome does actually happen, a decision you take or not take is played out in every infinite universe in a multiverse. The mathematics say it is plausible, though that makes no difference, because if you were to even glimpse the equations, without being versed into theoretical physics and extremely advanced maths, you wouldn't know what the hell you are looking at, let alone make heads or tails of the equations.
I also find the theory about the multiverse intriguing. One single universe with thousands of millions of galaxies and stars is mindblowing enough to even think about a multiverse with endless universes containing ALL the possibilities. Mindblowing and overwhelming indeed!
 
Old 02-02-2017, 12:20 AM   #26
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Since this thread is beginning to wander off into religion (better handled in the Mega thread) I will only say about that, that it is absolutely incorrect to attempt to equate "Creation Myth" with Scientific Theory. This is for two fundamental reasons. There are more than two but two are sufficient to show that a Goose is not a Duck.

1) Science is based on repeated observation whereas Religion is often literally based on what amounts to fever dreams. Others are simply attempts by primitive cultures who had so little understanding of how the world works that they relied on Mystics who "communed with spirits" through drugs and/or fasting and sense deprivation.

2) Science is Dynamic. It invites and embraces refinement and even falsification. The scientific meaning of "theory" is vastly more rigorous than "theory" in common vernacular. Religion is primarily static. It is "sold" as a Final Word, and any evidence to the contrary is aggressively murdered and/or trivialized.

Incidentally an example of this is that The Holographic Universe Theory has been falsified. If you want to know how you can start --- Wikipedia on ESA's Integral Probe --- It involves a billion light year "drag race" that sent many theorists back to their chalkboards after decades of work that was apparently a dead end.

Now, back to OPs questions. Because scientific theory is based on observation of events, by definition it must confine itself to events that can be observed. There is scientific speculation and even mathematical speculation since the value of those is paraqmount at the very least to discover "dead ends", that which cannot be true. To suppose that nobody can go back in time in one sense is ridiculous. We all do it in many ways but the most obvious is by looking at "the stars". At any fiven moment when we feel the Sun's warmth on our bodies or see it's light all around us, in truth the Sun could have already exploded since light requires some 8.3 minutes to reach our planet so we always observe it as it was in the very recent past. Because The Observable Universe is 10's of billions light years across anything observed at that edge has taken roughly 14 billion years to reach us so we see those stars as they were just shy of 14 billion years ago. We are not limited to light from stars in that the hot glowing Hydrogen that pre-existed stars can still be "seen" by instruments as importantly documented by WMAP and other longterm missions. So yes, we currently can observe phenomena microseconds after the so-called Big Bang occurred and with such instruments as the LHC at Cern we can verify much of how that occurred. The Standard Model is robust, resisting falsification over decades of work representing nearly uncountable man/hours by hundreds of thousands of trained experts with unimaginably precise instruments and fantastically rigorous standards.

Black Holes are somewhat new having first been theorized through speculative math by the early 20th Century by such notables as Albert Einstein, Lorentz, Podolsky, and Rosen. Since then there has been considerable observed evidence for the phenomenon and naturally it is gathering like a building avalanche. Here is one example ---- Sky and Telescope on Latest Hard Evidence for Black Holes --- It is not yet known exactly what is spewed out of some types of Black Holes but it is known that not only can light not escape as it went in, but past the Event Horizon our currently understood Laws of Physics begin to break down, largely because we are only beginning to scratch the surface in understanding the counter-intuitive manner in which things behave at the Quantum Level where things can literally be in two places at once or spring into existence from "nothing" and quickly back out If you wish to know more, look up Quantum Entanglement for starters.

If this interests anyone greatly I hereby invite you to join The Physics Forums which on one end is populated by lifelong expert scientists and on the other end by High School and College students (including PostDocs) as well as the casually curious. It is held to a very high standard but welcomes all and covers an extremely wide variety of subjects important to scientific understanding and exploration. It can be found here --- The Physics Forums --- I sincerely hope at least some of you find it as fascinating as I have over the last decade.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 03:17 AM   #27
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It's all just a shot in the dark...

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5572429
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5628970

...have fun!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-02-2017 at 03:27 AM. Reason: fix link
 
Old 02-07-2017, 10:08 PM   #28
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Thumbs up Markiplier plays Buried

Going further on choice - parallel dimensions - rips in time and space - involving a rogue government entity which dooms everyone - yea, that can't be good:

Buried | Part 1 | TURN DOWN THE LIGHTS... LISTEN CLOSELY...
Buried | Part 2 | CONTAINMENT HAS BEEN BREACHED...
Buried | Part 3 | MONSTERS IN THE DARKNESS
Buried | Part 4 | HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE?!
Buried | Part 5 | WE ALL GO DOWN TOGETHER...
 
Old 02-08-2017, 07:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post

1) Science is based on repeated observation
Religion is the same. As long as you observe the right people you will get the right conclusion. Even if you observe the wrong people if your data is correct then you'll get the right conclusion. But I think that is confusing for you to understand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
whereas Religion is often literally based on what amounts to fever dreams. Others are simply attempts by primitive cultures who had so little understanding of how the world works that they relied on Mystics who "communed with spirits" through drugs and/or fasting and sense deprivation.
NO it is not. You obviously have little to no understanding of God the Father of creation and His laws. But are like the rest that take a truth then add to it therefore turning it into a misleading belief of a truth. To put it bluntly and truthfully, turning a truth into a lie.

Science, or the study of how do things work is just trying to figure out not only how God does things, but it too shows what God already had to work with when he created the Heavens and the Earth. The planets where already here. He just put order to them.

If one believes in the right God mind you. For their are deceivers within the world to mislead others into believing their lie.


I do not discount the Creator nor do I scoff at all of Science. Closed minded people are of what?

Even with the Big Bang Theory, they cannot find that one piece of information they need to explain how life actually got started, and "strangely" enough they call it the God Particle


that is the short version.

Quote:
Incidentally an example of this is that The Holographic Universe Theory has been falsified. If you want to know how you can start --- Wikipedia on ESA's Integral Probe --- It involves a billion light year "drag race" that sent many theorists back to their chalkboards after decades of work that was apparently a dead end.
Dead end - key words

Last edited by BW-userx; 02-08-2017 at 07:27 AM.
 
Old 02-08-2017, 07:46 AM   #30
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post
...
So, you're an atheist... good for you, me to.

If a tree falls in a forest,,, LOOK OUT!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)
 
  


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