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Old 01-03-2019, 09:36 AM   #31
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Isn't "Chromebook" the absolutely least/cheapest hardware choices available? How can this be a good option in a market with even excellent hardware being delivered from price ranges of €500 and up? That's not even midrange, it's high range if you buy correctly. In this range I have found machine that are competitive with €1000+ machines, even €1500+. Good battery time, low power usage, excellent hardware choices etc.

Selecting a Chromebook in such a marketplace is a kind of "special needs" situation, and not something people should do by default. As far as I am conserned, Chromebooks come with several undesireable features, even for inexperienced users.

Acer for example delivers proper machines with proper hardware choices in €300 laptops called "swift", of which many comes with GNU/Linux preinstalled instead of Windows. Personally I can not see the benefit of choosing a Chromebook over for example Acer Swift.
Chromebooks are "reliable" in the sense they are disposable. Perfect for the OP's nursing home environment. If the Chromebook is damaged or lost, then the nursing home resident can simply turn on the replacement, and all their data will be magically restored from the cloud. Zero downtime, zero hassle. They could even get two Chromebooks for the price of an Acer Swift, and keep one in a safe place as a ready-to-go spare. (Or alternate between them for equal wear, for example use one while the other is charging.)

I agree that it's fun to own a nice, high-end laptop. But if there is real concern that nursing home staff are not respecting the resident's personal property, possessions are getting jostled and broken, then I think that's a strong argument for a cheap, disposable Chromebook. And a touchscreen "two in one" model would be very nice for playing solitaire.
 
Old 01-03-2019, 09:40 AM   #32
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
That machine costs $800, and for that price you can surely find many better options than a Chromebook.
Technically, that computer has been discontinued, so it's not available new at any price.

Dell's current Chromebook offerings start at $179.
 
Old 01-03-2019, 10:39 AM   #33
onebuck
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Member Response

Hi,

I have purchased several Dell refurbished Laptops and no bad experiences. Great product support. Check these refurbished Dell Chromebooks out; https://outlet.us.dell.com/ArbOnline...SrBqWvdw%3d%3d

Good prices & choices.

Not affiliated with Dell, just a satisfied customer.

Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!
 
Old 01-03-2019, 12:58 PM   #34
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
Chromebooks are "reliable" in the sense they are disposable. Perfect for the OP's nursing home environment. If the Chromebook is damaged or lost, then the nursing home resident can simply turn on the replacement, and all their data will be magically restored from the cloud. Zero downtime, zero hassle. They could even get two Chromebooks for the price of an Acer Swift, and keep one in a safe place as a ready-to-go spare. (Or alternate between them for equal wear, for example use one while the other is charging.)

I agree that it's fun to own a nice, high-end laptop. But if there is real concern that nursing home staff are not respecting the resident's personal property, possessions are getting jostled and broken, then I think that's a strong argument for a cheap, disposable Chromebook. And a touchscreen "two in one" model would be very nice for playing solitaire.
Right, yet the machine you talk about costs $800, far more than 2 Acer Swifts. Also, putting work date on Google servers sounds like a very bad idea and a matter of any workplace privacy policy to guard against.

And you do not need a Chromebook to put data on online servers, or "cloud" as you call it. This can be done with any operating system in many different ways, with many solutions being far superior to putting stuff on Google owned servers automatically and indescriminately.

What you are saying does not really make sense, it seems more like some kind of commercial activity or marketing, trying to sell a bad solution. You certainly do not have any consistent arguments for what you are marketing, as all the things and more can be done in other ways and cheaper as well, and with privacy and correct work procedures taken into consideration as well. Giving up ownership of your own data to Microsoft or Google sounds like the worst possible idea, something I am sure both Microsoft and Google would pay for people do to. But paying to do it, and using inferior machines instead?

Any Chromebook probably have another better machine with a matching price these days, but with a better choice of hardware. Chromebooks might work for people who buy gimmics, but everyone else should most likely stay away from it, unless it offers a specific advantage that they actually need.

There are plenty of good hardware on the market, in all price ranges and a variety of build qualities.
 
Old 01-03-2019, 01:00 PM   #35
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
Technically, that computer has been discontinued, so it's not available new at any price.

Dell's current Chromebook offerings start at $179.
And as I said, that is probably a lousy hardware selection. And you are not staying on context here, you ignore everything else said and individually argue as if nothing else has been posted here before, including your own posts where you argue for an $800 Chromebook as something special just because it does not come with shabby hardware.
 
Old 01-03-2019, 02:46 PM   #36
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Right, yet the machine you talk about costs $800, far more than 2 Acer Swifts. Also, putting work date on Google servers sounds like a very bad idea and a matter of any workplace privacy policy to guard against.

And you do not need a Chromebook to put data on online servers, or "cloud" as you call it. This can be done with any operating system in many different ways, with many solutions being far superior to putting stuff on Google owned servers automatically and indescriminately.

What you are saying does not really make sense, it seems more like some kind of commercial activity or marketing, trying to sell a bad solution. You certainly do not have any consistent arguments for what you are marketing, as all the things and more can be done in other ways and cheaper as well, and with privacy and correct work procedures taken into consideration as well. Giving up ownership of your own data to Microsoft or Google sounds like the worst possible idea, something I am sure both Microsoft and Google would pay for people do to. But paying to do it, and using inferior machines instead?

Any Chromebook probably have another better machine with a matching price these days, but with a better choice of hardware. Chromebooks might work for people who buy gimmics, but everyone else should most likely stay away from it, unless it offers a specific advantage that they actually need.

There are plenty of good hardware on the market, in all price ranges and a variety of build qualities.
First of all, I think you are confusing me with someone else! I am advocating for a disposable Chromebook in the $99-199 price range. It was a different person who suggested the discontinued $800 Chromebook.

Second, I work for a very large IT department. We support Google Apps for roughly 50,000 users. When we put the contract out to bid, Google had (by far) the most satisfactory answers to our privacy and security concerns. Security is something we take VERY seriously as we handle users' confidential personal/financial/payroll/healthcare data. I have been supporting Google Apps professionally for years, and I recommend it without hesitation based on direct personal experience.

I understand that many people in the Linux community hold passionate views, so I will not take your comments personally.
 
Old 01-03-2019, 02:58 PM   #37
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
And as I said, that is probably a lousy hardware selection. And you are not staying on context here, you ignore everything else said and individually argue as if nothing else has been posted here before, including your own posts where you argue for an $800 Chromebook as something special just because it does not come with shabby hardware.
I think you're very confused, and I'm not sure how to respond to this.

So I'll just make one last point and move on:

LinuxQuestions.org uses Google Analytics tracking code. It seems hypocritical to me that you yourself are a willing and voluntary Google consumer, but yet you are opposed to a nursing home patient using Google technology to make their life a little easier. Food for thought...
 
Old 01-03-2019, 04:34 PM   #38
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
...LinuxQuestions.org uses Google Analytics tracking code. It seems hypocritical to me that you yourself are a willing and voluntary Google consumer...
And the site still works well with google analytics disabled.
 
Old 01-05-2019, 11:27 AM   #39
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
First of all, I think you are confusing me with someone else! I am advocating for a disposable Chromebook in the $99-199 price range. It was a different person who suggested the discontinued $800 Chromebook.

Second, I work for a very large IT department. We support Google Apps for roughly 50,000 users. When we put the contract out to bid, Google had (by far) the most satisfactory answers to our privacy and security concerns. Security is something we take VERY seriously as we handle users' confidential personal/financial/payroll/healthcare data. I have been supporting Google Apps professionally for years, and I recommend it without hesitation based on direct personal experience.

I understand that many people in the Linux community hold passionate views, so I will not take your comments personally.
Sorry, I got you confused with the other guy. But anyways, if I had a company I would never just put all the company data with Google, that would be a huge red light and a big no-go. As a citizen I would never accept my data be handled by these companies either, and I would be very angry with my government if they allowed public data to be transferred to these giant companies, rather than maintaining it themselves, which they can and have done well. There is a debate ongoing about this kind of topic in my country, as some local public institution had made the mistake to put public data in private corporate hands. It is one thing for a company to maintain equipment on behalf of, it is quite another for public data to be handed to the private sector.

Anyways, I don't use any Google, Microsoft (minus hotmail for spammy email stuff), Apple or such products at all, and I would be very weary of not breaking the law if the government in my country started putting public data in the hands of such companies. I mean, breaking the law as in not giving public institutions any of my data at all.

I'd be willing to go as far as to go completely offline in life and live "illegally" in my own country, if participation in public life demanded me using any of those bad companies, directly or indirectly.
 
Old 01-05-2019, 11:28 AM   #40
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine View Post
I think you're very confused, and I'm not sure how to respond to this.

So I'll just make one last point and move on:

LinuxQuestions.org uses Google Analytics tracking code. It seems hypocritical to me that you yourself are a willing and voluntary Google consumer, but yet you are opposed to a nursing home patient using Google technology to make their life a little easier. Food for thought...
I block google-analytics.
 
Old 01-05-2019, 12:14 PM   #41
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
Sorry, I got you confused with the other guy. But anyways, if I had a company I would never just put all the company data with Google, that would be a huge red light and a big no-go. As a citizen I would never accept my data be handled by these companies either, and I would be very angry with my government if they allowed public data to be transferred to these giant companies, rather than maintaining it themselves, which they can and have done well. There is a debate ongoing about this kind of topic in my country, as some local public institution had made the mistake to put public data in private corporate hands. It is one thing for a company to maintain equipment on behalf of, it is quite another for public data to be handed to the private sector.

Anyways, I don't use any Google, Microsoft (minus hotmail for spammy email stuff), Apple or such products at all, and I would be very weary of not breaking the law if the government in my country started putting public data in the hands of such companies. I mean, breaking the law as in not giving public institutions any of my data at all.

I'd be willing to go as far as to go completely offline in life and live "illegally" in my own country, if participation in public life demanded me using any of those bad companies, directly or indirectly.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Additionally I would add Amazon to the list. Amazon Web Services (AWS) hosts something like 33% of global "cloud" services, more than Google, Microsoft, and Apple combined! AWS clients include, for example, the U.S. Department of Defense. Is it a conflict of interest that Amazon is also one of the world's biggest retailers?

You're going to hate this, but the place where I work is a public state university. 30,000 impressionable young minds. They show up for freshman year, they get their Gmail email addresses, they use Google Docs for their term papers, Google Sheets for their data sets, etc. It's mandatory for them to complete their coursework and graduate with good grades, that they become loyal and submissive Google customers.

It's very kind of you to say that, when it comes to safeguarding data, government employees such as myself "can and have done well." Thank you. But at the end of the day, you ever try administering an email server for 30,000 users? The Google employees are much smarter and better-paid than I am. Weighing the balance of all the pros and cons, the "powers that be" decided to outsource email rather than try to run it in house. Please don't hold that against me personally, though---I am not any kind of "decision maker" at the state contract level!

Bringing it back around again on topic, to "reliable laptop recommendations," one computer that I personally own and recommend, that I think would be very good for solitaire due to its touchscreen, is the Dell XPS 13 "2 in 1" model 9365. They start at around $999 new and unfortunately come with Windows as the only option. But, I was able to find a refurbished model in the Outlet for about $700 and install Fedora linux on it. What I specifically like about this XPS 9365 for a nursing home or hospital environment is that it's fanless. It has no air intake vents that can collect dust or germs. Also the "2 in 1" design makes it really easy to fold flat and give a good wipe-down with a disinfectant cloth. $700 is a lot more than most Chromebooks, though, so you'd want to take really good care of it.

Another really strong contender is the Dell XPS 13 model 9370. These start at $889 (less if you buy refurbished) and come with Ubuntu linux pre-installed. In my opinion, this is the sleekest, sexiest Linux-preinstalled laptop on the market. I don't own one (yet) but it will possibly be my next purchase. I see a lot of them around campus, very popular with the students.

For a bigger laptop with 15" screen, I highly recommend the Dell Precision series, with Ubuntu linux preinstalled.
 
Old 01-06-2019, 07:31 PM   #42
dugan
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The OH MY GOD THE CLOUD COMPANY CAN STEAL YOUR DATA bogeyman comes up here often. Zeebra is definitely not the first person to raise it.

Has there literally ever been a case of that happening?

Every arguable example I can think of has just been the company complying with laws (court orders, warrants, etc).

Last edited by dugan; 01-06-2019 at 07:44 PM.
 
Old 01-07-2019, 06:05 AM   #43
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
The OH MY GOD THE CLOUD COMPANY CAN STEAL YOUR DATA bogeyman comes up here often. Zeebra is definitely not the first person to raise it.

Has there literally ever been a case of that happening?

Every arguable example I can think of has just been the company complying with laws (court orders, warrants, etc).
There is a company in the clouds?

We all know the "cloud" is BS, marketing gimmick, and that it's all just overglorified servers.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 05:26 AM   #44
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I believe in using cheapware--find the cheapest disposable laptop with decent battery life that can connect to a virtual private network that hosts your home directory. Run the X session remotely, and connect with cheapware over vpn to x-session. Then you can throw cheapware away when it breaks and never lose a thing. Cheapest of the cheapware for today: https://www.pine64.org/?product=pinebook !!!
 
  


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