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View Poll Results: Your stance on weapons law
Pro gun (all guns for self defence) 13 36.11%
Anti gun (no guns for self defence) 11 30.56%
Selective gun (only selected guns for self defence) 6 16.67%
other option 6 16.67%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-09-2019, 07:03 AM   #1
Arcane
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Post Is America actually safer with gun allowance?


Just curious about practical(not political) reality in USA of difference where people have weapons access and allowance to use them for self defence against criminals and whatnot compared to those areas in America where people have not. Internet contains lot of opinion based stuff materials so asking to people who face it in real life. In Europe it is pretty illegal to overdose with guns, cause Europe not have such regulation as 2nd amendment unlike USA, so most people train in martial arts instead. So if someone from Europe will travel to USA as tourist or otherwise then they will not have to worry being attacked by bullets being in wrong neighbourhood?
 
Old 04-09-2019, 07:46 AM   #2
rokytnji
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Having self defense tools and not needing them. Is still safer than for the folks that have them . Unless they have no skills and blow their own head off.

Needing self defense tools and not having them. Well. I've heard about about Pol Pot, and other pogroms where not having self defense weapons did not work out for the victims that were unarmed.

Being the son of concentration camp victims. You cannot convince me otherwise.
My folks moved to the USA for a very good reason.

Traveling in wrong neighborhood is dangerous in any part of the world.

Posted by a traveler/roamer, gypsy rider, 6 foot 7 inch, that used to fold little good martial arts men in half also. When they act like irresponsible.

USMC taught me a thing or 2.

Latvia and Pecos are worlds apart. In my podunk town. We have Latinos, whites, arabs, blacks, asians, the whole world is here trying to cash in on the oil boom.


Think about this for a sec. If in a bad situation with your Mom and Sister and daughter with you. You are trying to protect them from a violent situation that has just developed in front of you. With a sigh of relief. In your mind. You smile inside as you know all your girls are packing heat in their purses.

You initial adrenaline rush starts to settle down. Like I said. Better to have than to have not.

Sometimes in life. Running is not a option.
Lesson over.

I don't carry a gun. By the way. But I know where to borry one rickey tic like if the need arises. I consider that a good thing.

Others may not. Oh well. What ever trips your trigger.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 08:24 AM   #3
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Just curious about practical(not political) reality in USA of difference where people have weapons access and allowance to use them for self defence against criminals and whatnot compared to those areas in America where people have not. Internet contains lot of opinion based stuff materials so asking to people who face it in real life. In Europe it is pretty illegal to overdose with guns, cause Europe not have such regulation as 2nd amendment unlike USA, so most people train in martial arts instead.
Totally agree with rokytnji here. Having it and not needing it, is FAR better than the other way around. But my belief is that you shouldn't have them if you don't treat them with respect, and have training so you don't injure yourself or someone innocent. Or leave them laying around unsecured.
Quote:
So if someone from Europe will travel to USA as tourist or otherwise then they will not have to worry being attacked by bullets being in wrong neighbourhood?
Your argument is totally invalid. Are you honestly trying to say that in Europe there are NO 'wrong neighborhoods', or places you don't want to be? Or that you don't get attacked by folks with knives/fists? Weren't there just a fairly bad set of knife attacks in London? Or are you honestly saying that there is no violence/bullying/stealing/stabbing where you are??

Like rokytnji, I'm former military. I'm 6'6", and not someone you'd like try your martial arts on. Do I wear my pistol? Sometimes..depends on the situation. When we're out with my wifes business and carrying cash at night, absolutely. Is it in my car when we're in rural areas driving? Yup. I've thankfully never had to use it in civilian life, and hope NEVER to have to. But I have shown it before, and put my hand on the holster, and that was enough to make someone go away...which is the goal.

And rokytnji, I knew folks who were in the camps as well. God bless.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 09:01 AM   #4
Arcane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
{...}Your argument is totally invalid. Are you honestly trying to say that in Europe there are NO 'wrong neighborhoods', or places you don't want to be? Or that you don't get attacked by folks with knives/fists? Weren't there just a fairly bad set of knife attacks in London? Or are you honestly saying that there is no violence/bullying/stealing/stabbing where you are??{...}
No i am not saying that in Europe there are NO "wrong neighbourhoods", of course there are plenty but they are kinda marked on map so to speak, and in Europe it is different cause people mostly will beat you up or scam you or steal from you not shoot you up because law is more strict when it comes to firearms. This is why people need understand context before reply. I was asking not argumenting. I can't discuss stuff i have no idea on. I do not live in USA i have no idea but in Europe it is much harder to use gun in&near public places without attracting 911 attention so people use other means to do crimes. Also i am not racist but i am asking not claiming : is it true that because of black people USA has more agression? Just watch youtube pranks and social experiments done with white and black people - black people reply with more agression and if they have also gun..but i am just asking cause i want to educate myself. If i am wrong it is because of propoganda. This is another reason why i ask about guns : how much propoganda is about this 2nd amendment thing in real life. Hopefully none gets upset now. I know what it is like when people ignore context. My country is neighbour of Russia so in Europe people mostly treat baltic people as russians but it is not true, and russians are also different than TV portrait.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 09:14 AM   #5
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
No i am not saying that in Europe there are NO "wrong neighbourhoods", of course there are plenty but they are kinda marked on map so to speak, and in Europe it is different cause people mostly will beat you up or scam you or steal from you not shoot you up because law is more strict when it comes to firearms.
And most people aren't 'shot up' here. Being robbed isn't somehow OK if you're beaten, stabbed, or scammed. And the vast majority of such things here are done with knives or just SHOWING a gun to someone...not shooting them. And again, your statement is plain wrong. If someone is going to break the law, do you honestly think they're going to CARE if it's illegal? Or are you trying to assert that robbing someone with a knife is more 'legal' than doing it with a gun?
Quote:
This is why people need understand context before reply. I was asking not argumenting. I can't discuss stuff i have no idea on. I do not live in USA i have no idea but in Europe it is much harder to use gun in&near public places without attracting 911 attention so people use other means to do crimes.
Right; you don't...I've been to Europe (numerous countries), and the bad neighborhoods certainly aren't marked on maps, any more than they are here. You asked, and you were answered.
Quote:
Also i am not racist but i am asking not claiming : is it true that because of black people USA has more agression? Just watch youtube pranks and social experiments done with white and black people - black people reply with more agression and if they have also gun..but i am just asking cause i want to educate myself. If i am wrong it is because of propoganda. This is another reason why i ask about guns : how much propoganda is about this 2nd amendment thing in real life. Hopefully none gets upset now. I know what it is like when people ignore context. My country is neighbour of Russia so in Europe people mostly treat baltic people as russians but it is not true, and russians are also different than TV portrait.
Anytime you say "I'm not a racist, but...", is a really good indication you ARE a racist. If you honestly think the color of someones skin, race, religion, or anything else makes them more or less violent/better/superior, then you are a bigot, period. Get your information firsthand, not from stupid YouTube videos.

Last edited by TB0ne; 04-09-2019 at 09:16 AM.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 09:50 AM   #6
Arcane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
{...}Anytime you say "I'm not a racist, but...", is a really good indication you ARE a racist. If you honestly think the color of someones skin, race, religion, or anything else makes them more or less violent/better/superior, then you are a bigot, period. Get your information firsthand, not from stupid YouTube videos.
Context again..i wrote this "i'm not racist, but.." because last time i did not clarify something you thought i am claiming opposite of my point. I really have no problem with other skin people(i was guestworker in Wester Europe and had 0 problem chatting with other skin people as long as we understand same language, they were not upset on me) but we have basketball team in one of our cities that have black players and stereotypes about them kinda proove right when it comes to game aswell..in positive way in this case. Black people do play with more force..that is what i also heard from other people. This is another reason why i mentioned that i ask from realistic POV not political to not get into such offtopic. If i offended someone it is because of misunderstanding of context. And again : i am using youtube because it is kinda so popular by now that so much valid stuff is put into it to educate people. YouTube is like modern book library visualised. I can also use other sources but then will need to use even other sources to counter misunderstanding of that. heck, sometimes even if will quote famous documentary book from library there will still be some to say "stupid source". Then what is 'smart source' that never fails?

Ok let's go back to ontopic. So from what i understand USA is close to Europe in threat %? But then what is the point of 2nd ammendment? Why so many debates on TV and internet about gun violence and gun control? If people rather carry gun with them, like suggest, that means possibility to use it is also higher?

Last edited by Arcane; 04-09-2019 at 09:57 AM. Reason: more
 
Old 04-09-2019, 09:57 AM   #7
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Context again..i wrote this "i'm not racist, but.." because last time i did not clarify something you thought i am claiming opposite of my point.
Wrong. You misunderstood the use of the word "argument".
Quote:
I really have no problem with other skin people(i was guestworker in Wester Europe and had 0 problem chatting with other skin people as long as we understand same language, they were not upset on me) but we have basketball team in one of our cities that have black players and stereotypes about them kinda proove right when it comes to game aswell..in positive way in this case. Black people do play with more force..that is what i also heard from other people. This is another reason why i mentioned that i ask from realistic POV not political to not get into such offtopic. If i offended someone it is because of misunderstanding of context.
Bolded to phrases above for emphasis; do you not see the irony there?
Quote:
And again : i am using youtube because it is kinda so popular by now that so much valid stuff is put into it to educate people. YouTube is like modern book library visualised. I can also use other sources but then will need to use even other sources to counter misunderstanding of that. Ok let's go back to ontopic.
YouTube is crap; it is not a 'modern book library visualized'. If you want to know, go LEARN for yourself, don't watch other people's points of view. Go find out.

I'm done with you.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:07 AM   #8
jsbjsb001
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It's not people having guns that's the issue. Most countries allow their citizens to have at least some form of firearms. It's the type of guns and weapons that's the issue, and particularly the type of person possessing those guns.

Good luck stuffing an AK-47 down the front of your pants... is that a pencil in your pocket?
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:20 AM   #9
enorbet
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The only regulations I would accept on weapons is a requirement for a certificate from a publicly responsible board for at least a weeks training in use and safety.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Good luck stuffing an AK-47 down the front of your pants... is that a pencil in your pocket?
I always keep my Zebra F-301 stainless steel pen clipped inside my shirt, just in case.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #11
jsbjsb001
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Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
I always keep my Zebra F-301 stainless steel pen clipped inside my shirt, just in case.
Yeah well, at least it's steel. As I remember seeing an episode of "Pawn Stars", and ya know what a sword one guy was trying to sell to them was made out of? Glass. No kidding, glass. He made it himself. What if someone punched him? His own "home-made sword" would kill him before he would be able to become a victim...

How ironic.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 10:56 AM   #12
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Everybody thinks they have a plan. Till the fist splays their face, the teeth fly, and blood flows like water.

Usually. Everytime I have been in a physical confrontation. My life style and attitude brings this into my life on a daily basis.

Have not died by the sword yet. Luck and skill I have plenty of.
Learned long time ago. Luck is better than skill.
I have stood in front bikers wearing colors ready to rat pack on my butt.
No guns. But I was prepared to go to the hospital.
The only reason I am here presently to tell you about it.

My little lady behind me with the ruger 9mm in her purse.

At arcane. I mentioned years and years ago. To my Mom. I could take TDY flight to the Ukraine to visit any relatives I have over there. Her reply to me.
" Don't you dare "

So which do you think is more dangerous? USA or your area. My Mom let me know.
She speaks from personal experience.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:06 AM   #13
rokytnji
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PS. I voted other option. Because one scenario does not fit all situations. I've seen enough combat to know.

Besides. With all the security clearances given out lately like cracker jack prizes. No telling who is watching us give opinions anymore.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:19 AM   #14
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Weren't there just a fairly bad set of knife attacks in London? Or are you honestly saying that there is no violence/bullying/stealing/stabbing where you are??
It's ongoing...

Arming everyone with a knife for "self defence" probably wouldn't solve the problem... in fact a big part of the problem is that kids are carrying knives for this very reason. They are in many cases "gang" members, who are under constant threat from rivals. The way they see it, they carry a knife or they become a victim. It's a vicious cycle which results in a lot of knife carrying and those knives inevitably being used - instead of fists.

I would say that the firearms control topic has been done to death. It differs from one country to another. I personally would not want people here to get easy access to firearms. What works in one country/region may not work so well in another. It's something which you can't put back in the box - once you have armed citizenry, you have armed police and you have armed criminals in greater abundance.
 
Old 04-09-2019, 11:24 AM   #15
rokytnji
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Also. To put this in perspective. A squirt gun can be just as deadly as a sniper rifle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass...f_Kim_Jong-nam

Quote:
he was attacked with VX nerve agent
 
  


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