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Old 02-19-2021, 04:32 AM   #16
rokytnji
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Moot question for my family.

Like in the stand when it came to Captain Trips . We stood.
 
Old 02-19-2021, 05:44 AM   #17
fatmac
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The point about wearing masks, washing hands, getting vaccinated, is to be as safe as possible whilst the scientists get a handle on the virus, once that is achieved, we can go back to normality.
 
Old 02-19-2021, 03:46 PM   #18
mjolnir
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I had my first shot (Moderna) Monday. I had been leaning in the camp not to do it but I decided to go ahead and get the shot because of my proximity to my sister and brother-in-law whom I see about every day. Other than a worn out knee I've, fortunately, been healthy as the proverbial horse. They, on the other hand, have had bouts with about every co-morbidity one can name. Cancer, stroke, heart attack, valve replacements, COPD, high blood pressure and diabetes.
I can't help but feel a little guilty if I don't hazard a little discomfort if it lessens the chance that I may inadvertently bring the disease into their house.
I've had two friends die from Covid and another who is slowly getting better after 70+ days in the ICU.

Last edited by mjolnir; 02-20-2021 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Spelling
 
Old 02-19-2021, 04:24 PM   #19
michaelk
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One caveat...

There are ongoing studies to look at transmission from those that have received a vaccine. The phase 3 study really only looked at protection and not if there were still enough virus in the persons nose or mouth to see if it might be passed on to others. And as posted regardless you should still try following the same COVID rules until more people are vaccinated.
 
Old 02-19-2021, 04:26 PM   #20
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Yes; I am surprised at being asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
The point about wearing masks, washing hands, getting vaccinated, is to be as safe as possible whilst the scientists get a handle on the virus, once that is achieved, we can go back to normality.
Unfortunately, it may be that many (current) vaccines might not provide good enough protection against transmission, so that social distancing and mask wearing may be the new normality to protect the people who can't* be vaccinated.


*"Can't", not "won't".
 
Old 02-20-2021, 10:05 AM   #21
Geist
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Social distancing and hygiene protocol also helps against all not yet discovered diseases, at least somewhat.
But regarding the vaccine, I would oppose it even if it weren't connected to a wholly cockamamey phenomenon where everyone is dumb about it (myself included) but simply because mass transit, mass everything needs to be curbed, including wanton global travel.

Global travel is codeword for "your country isn't allowed to be nice enough, enjoy your brutalism, destitude, slums, etc, here have some monopoly money to fly to a tourist zone somewhere else".

The contemporary world is a shitshow running on a bunch of patches. I'm not an accelerationist, but I am a not letting few get away with horseshit on the backs of many ist.
The more people feel impervious due to their shots against DA VARUS the easier it is to entice them back into the sardine cans and so forth.
 
Old 02-20-2021, 12:17 PM   #22
BenCollver
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I heard that natural covid-19 immunity lasts 3 months and the evidence is not in yet for how long vaccine immunity lasts. If the vaccine comes in 2 shots and i need to redo 4 times per year then i am not up for that.

I also heard that there is no vaccine for kids yet.
 
Old 02-20-2021, 12:26 PM   #23
michaelk
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Quote:
I also heard that there is no vaccine for kids yet.
The initial phase 3 trials did not include those under 16 and therefore the emergency use authorization did not include children. Trials have started for children starting with those 12-16 age group with the Pfizer vaccine I believe. Then tests with 9-12 and 6-12 age groups will follow. They are also starting trials with pregnant women too.
 
Old 02-20-2021, 10:54 PM   #24
ChuangTzu
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No.
 
Old 02-21-2021, 01:48 AM   #25
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenCollver View Post
I heard that natural covid-19 immunity lasts 3 months and the evidence is not in yet for how long vaccine immunity lasts.
I recently heard about a long term study in Ischgl; most of them still have antibodies after 8 months iirc...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ovid-immunity/
 
Old 02-21-2021, 03:29 AM   #26
hazel
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Actually I agree with Geist about foreign travel. That's what got us into this mess in the first place, with skiers and other holidaymakers carrying covid all round the world. And it's disastrous for the climate too, all that carbon dioxide spewing into the atmosphere from plane exhausts. When I was growing up, holidays meant going to the seaside in your own country, and there were a lot of prosperous seaside towns that are disaster areas now.

But what has all that to do with getting or not getting vaccinated?
 
Old 02-21-2021, 08:44 AM   #27
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Actually I agree with Geist about foreign travel. That's what got us into this mess in the first place......
Couldn't disagree more.
The joy of travel is discovering new and different cultures. New experiences. Different foods. Different languages.
OTOH, if one visits a different country, but wants to eat at McDonalds and stay at the Hilton, they might as well have stayed home.

Last edited by cwizardone; 02-21-2021 at 08:45 AM.
 
Old 02-21-2021, 10:40 AM   #28
Geist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
But what has all that to do with getting or not getting vaccinated?
Inhibition drops as 'feeling of vaccination invulnerability' rises.
My most immediate point: Global travel for purposes other than cultural study. I personally consider China not that much of a cultural mecca in this current day and age, and more of a commercial hub and to hook up with women that look young and petite and other such things. Etc things that are more economic and so forth than "Oh I must dive into the heart of an ancient civilization and really bathe in that splendor".


More zoomed out/higher level view:
Vaccination breaks uncomfortable 'pressure points' created by some protocol/conduct.

I'm basically anti vaccination and anti mask on the topic of covid.
Let's rewind a year or so, or ten months where things were still nebulous and masks were the super duper contentious topic of the day, because there were shortages and stuff.

There are two pathways, one past I, and I alone, it has a big berth space to avoid me with, lets say 16feet/5meters, I look a bit sickly and I cough every now and then.
The other pathway has a group of people that are all asymptomatic, but could have covid anyway.

I will always, if you approach me, turn away from you so in the case I cough, I cough away from you.
The group of people will always mill in a way where you have to push through them.

If you walk past me, you have to loudly extoll praise about me, it doens't have to be sincere, but it has to sound like it is, so a bystander might be convinced it is.
There is no further conduct for the group, you walk through them, you're done.

If we play this scenario a few times, from: No masks on anyone, no vaccination on anyone, to, fully vaccinated group, I'm coughing and looking like shit still.
Preference will, I would say, shift.

At the very first the group is too much of a gamble where I am, despite my clear signs, am allowing you a wide berth and I behave in a way that is considerate, and praising me, even if you hate my guts, is probably more preferrable than getting sick.

But now let's say, all people in the group wear masks, and all in the group are vaccinated, and you don't have to praise them.
It's not unlikely, that, especially if one can't stand me, that at this point one might choose the group, even though the 'danger levels' I exude never change, there's always my considerate behavior and the big berth.

But once vaccination and stuff is on the picture, the pressure of having to extoll the virtues of Iself is too high and the group is preferrable.

Same with all other conduct that we actually should do and redesigning our societies and institutions and mindsets that fortify us against unknown diseases instead of going back to the old, broken way of before.
But vaccinations pacify this pressure of restructuring and change, etc.

That's why I choose to ride the wave of this pandemic and embrace the stigma of 'anti vaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxer' no matter how stupid that label makes me appear.
We were vaccinated against all sorts of mean stuff before covid, and then covid came and well, we're living it.
 
Old 02-21-2021, 12:09 PM   #29
DavidMcCann
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Is it a coincidence that the anti-vaxers all seem to be Slackers?
 
Old 02-21-2021, 04:53 PM   #30
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Is it a coincidence that the anti-vaxers all seem to be Slackers?
Most likely yes, perhaps not. Beware of the Tyranny of Mind where convoluted meaningless phrases like anti-vaxers are created to push people apart and remove the possibility of civilized debate and conversation. Shall we permit ourselves to be put into neat little boxes of vaxers over on this train car and anti-vaxers over on that train car? For those that want to use vaccines use it, for those that don't then don't.
 
  


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