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Old 01-16-2019, 05:30 AM   #16
fatmac
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The rich own everything, (whose wealth was originally 'stolen' from the people by taxes).

Rich people don't care about other people!

The poor have to pay what the rich demand - or go without.
 
Old 01-16-2019, 06:48 AM   #17
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
" annual fixed-price tariffs " I'd have to think that fuel and the ability to deliver energy goes up and down. You can't burn cheap coal anymore and you don't want to fire up a nuclear plant so you are stuck maybe on natural gas or even imported electricity.
Obviously it goes up and down. The problem with the private companies is that they raise the standard variable tariff when wholesale costs go up but never lower it when costs go down again. Then the next time costs go up, they raise the tariff again even though they already have that rise priced in.
Quote:
Best case maybe Spain could supply true solar energy that is really based on green technology.

So far no one has proven to me that you can pay $40,000 to supply your home with so called free electric solar.
Well, I have solar panels and they didn't cost me $40,000. They cost 2,000 as a matter of fact. And I do get free energy during the day (except on very dull winter days) because the panels produce enough to run my fridge, freezer and computer. However solar panels would not be economic by themselves because most of what they produce goes straight into the grid. They shut down in the evening just when domestic demand peaks. That's why in the UK we get payment (feed-in tariff) for what is produced during the day.

btw we have also had a rash of bankruptcies over here. Some of the new companies were so eager to win new customers via the switching sites that they ended up charging too little and ran out of cash. In that case, customers get switched seamlessly to another producer but they don't get to choose who.

Last edited by hazel; 01-16-2019 at 06:55 AM.
 
Old 01-16-2019, 06:53 AM   #18
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
The rich own everything, (whose wealth was originally 'stolen' from the people by taxes).

Rich people don't care about other people!

The poor have to pay what the rich demand - or go without.
Recently some behavioural scientists carried out an experiment in which players were given tokens (monopoly money) to play with. In the control group, everyone got the same number of tokens. In the experimental group, some got a lot more than the rest.

The game (I've forgotten the details of how it was played) measured how willing players were to help each other out. The "rich" were noticeably less willing to help anyone than either the "poor" or the players in the control group. Furthermore they seemed to believe that they had been given more because they deserved it.
 
Old 01-16-2019, 05:11 PM   #19
jefro
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Some few cities such as the City of Austin owns their electrical system and brother do you get the chance to pay for that! Texas used to have some of the highest rates in the US and most were City owned. I've never seen any government run program that saved anyone any money. Rate structures are just scams to fool the public into thinking they are doing OK. In Texas there was a rate structure that involved a charge for a telephone pole. For about two years companies were drilling holes and putting up poles every 10 feet so they could charge the State mandated charge. Thanks for poles!

I'd be more likely to believe that solar panels are green when I see a solar panel factory being powered by them. No, wait, they are being made using hydroelectric power. Poor little fish being ground up to make a panel.

Spain and a soon to be project in Morocco use the sun's heat to create steam to power turbines. That is a much superior means than PV panels. If PV wasn't created out of expensive energy hungry silicon wafers and didn't use exotic minerals and could produce 50% of captured power then you'd have something. A plant in New Mexico is using a Sterling motor and seems to be working fantastic.

2000 Pounds about $2700 won't buy much here. That won't power a travel trailer very long.

Last edited by jefro; 01-16-2019 at 05:42 PM.
 
Old 01-16-2019, 05:14 PM   #20
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Some few cities such as the City of Austin owns their electrical system and brother do you get the chance to pay for that! Texas used to have some of the highest rates in the US and most were City owned. I've never seen any government run program that saved anyone any money. Rate structures are just scams to fool the public into thinking they are doing OK. In Texas there was a rate structure that involved a charge for a telephone pole. For about two years companies were drilling holes and putting up poles every 10 feet so they could charge the State mandated charge. Thanks for poles!
 
Old 01-19-2019, 06:56 AM   #21
hazel
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Today I received two identical letters from Green Star, one for gas and one for electricity. They are soaked in crocodile tears.
Quote:
As a valued customer we want you to stay with us. Please call to discuss our other options or how we can help in any way, particularly if you are not looking to leave so that we can stop the transfer. We only have a short window where we can stop the transfer, so please do call us as soon as you can.
First, I am not a "valued customer" because they have no valued customers. No company that valued its customers would treat them in this shitty way. Remember, it's not just me. These crazy new tariffs apply to everyone who gets their power from this company.

Secondly, their offer to "help in any way" suggests that they think I may just be having difficulty paying and could perhaps be bought off with some kind of "easy payment" option. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that I might actually be angry at being treated like a milch cow.

Last edited by hazel; 01-19-2019 at 06:57 AM.
 
Old 01-19-2019, 10:27 AM   #22
jsbjsb001
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I know exactly what you're talking about Hazel. I was paying the highest power prices in the world (no joke), and I asked Dodo Power & Gas (yeah "dodo", I know, I know) for a cheaper rate. They repeatedly said they couldn't, so I said "well, I'm changing providers", and the best they could offer is to give me an extension on my bill. It's like, I'm not going to be able to pay it off by the time the next bill comes in (I was getting billed monthly) !!!

They didn't give a rats ass, the bastards. So I did exactly what I said... see ya's later, I'm changing providers, bugger ya's.

Their full of sh*t, just leave them!
 
Old 01-19-2019, 05:11 PM   #23
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Today I received two identical letters... I am not a "valued customer" because they have no valued customers... It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that I might actually be angry at being treated like a milch cow.
Over here there's a (not so) minor industry in comparing energy providers (you'll need to move the slider to "Australia" to see the page I'm talking about). We've found the answer is to play "musical providers" every year or so and see what others are offering. And it's interesting how Smith Energy might suddenly come up with a really good "customer loyalty plan*" if you tell them that you're looking at Jones Electricity because their plans work better for you. This also goes for insurance, banks, ISPs etc.

*Which is only good for 12 months but you'll be looking around by then anyway.
 
Old 01-20-2019, 10:14 AM   #24
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fido_dogstoyevsky View Post
Over here there's a (not so) minor industry in comparing energy providers
Same here. I could name you half a dozen comparison websites off the top of my head. But all it does is to encourage "churn" because suppliers offer one-year loss-leaders just to get to the top of the lists
Quote:
We've found the answer is to play "musical providers" every year or so and see what others are offering. And it's interesting how Smith Energy might suddenly come up with a really good "customer loyalty plan*" if you tell them that you're looking at Jones Electricity because their plans work better for you. This also goes for insurance, banks, ISPs etc.
That's what the UK government is always telling us to do. But it means changing suppliers every bloody year and most of us haven't the energy to do that. Also there is an important difference between energy suppliers (or ISPs) and insurers. The former have publicly listed tariffs so they can't provide special deals for individuals, whereas insurers give every customer a separate deal. If you threaten to leave your home or car insurer, they will usually come up with something better. An energy supplier can't do that, which is why I didn't take the bait.

Of course there is another way for an energy company to get and keep customers: it can treat them decently, which is what Green Star did for several years. It had really good one-year tariffs, renewable every year. So people who got their power from Green Star stayed with Green Star, which was probably more economical for them in the long run than having to deal with an unpredictable churning of leavers and new customers. Pity they changed their policy!
 
  


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