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Old 08-04-2022, 08:53 AM   #16
sundialsvcs
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My impression was that Microsoft was finally getting rid of Windows "versions" and just doing one. To me, those "editions" always just sounded like a nightmare for the company and confusion for its users: no benefit to anyone concerned.

Admittedly, theirs is a very complex system. It has many tightly intertwined layers of complexity. However, if you view Windows as "the foundation technology behind Microsoft [Office ...] products," it begins to make sense. They have also devoted a lot of attention on the efficient remote administration and provisioning of "thousands of machines." Which you can actually do!

Linux, through the initiatives of companies like Red Hat and Canonical, has made great strides with some of these "corporate deployment" concerns, but it still doesn't quite have the "polish" that Windows does. Nevertheless, if you need to run Unix/Linux based software and still co-exist in a "Windows world," they most certainly can do it. Companies today routinely have a healthy mixture of platforms – Windows, Linux, MacOS (OS/X) – all somehow co-existing and magically it all works.

Microsoft simply copied a betting-card from IBM when they strived to construct a technology stack which basically consists entirely of "their stuff." And, Microsoft Windows is the basement layer which ultimately runs that "stack." Companies buy into that stack because it is ... "damned good software." Yes, it is. Really.

Microsoft's designers were seminally influenced by the PDP-10 that they were all used to at that time (and CP/M), not Unix of any kind. But their system really does also work. I don't prefer their system, but, "they came by their successes honestly."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-04-2022 at 09:01 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2022, 04:11 PM   #17
rokytnji
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Everybody sitting by you is mostly using Windows or Android and if you have a question.

Just turn and ask. There is certain comfort in that. That is all I can figure. Besides. I equate running linux in my area as ukranian only speaker in a neighborhood of latino and english speaking residents.

No wonder they roll their eyes when I mention what I am running. Then the neg. stuff of what I can't do that they can do stuff.
A lot of it is in their heads.
That is when I roll my eyes.

Don't care really what you run. But. I don't answer mac, android, or windows questions anymore.
That is others turf that I know little about. Yeah. I admit my Chromebook and Samsung phone overwhelm me sometimes.
 
Old 08-04-2022, 07:02 PM   #18
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
My impression was that Microsoft was finally getting rid of Windows "versions" and just doing one.
Direct from the horse's mouth:
1. https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/wind...are-windows-11
2. https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/micr...-11-enterprise
3. https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/educ...oducts/windows

There are at least 8 (eight) editions of Windows 11 mentioned on Microsoft's own website:

Windows Home
Windows Pro
Windows Pro for Workstations
Windows Enterprise E3
Windows Enterprise E5
Windows Enterprise E3 in Microsoft 365 F3
Windows Education
Windows SE
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Microsoft's designers were seminally influenced by the PDP-10 that they were all used to at that time (and CP/M)
Bit of revisionist history there.

1. DOS = Microsoft didn't design it. They bought it.
2. Windows NT (the foundation for modern Windows) was written by a guy called Dave Cutler whom Microsoft poached from DEC. He used the architecture of VMS as the basis for his design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
but, "they came by their successes honestly."
Do you remember the phrase, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"?
 
Old 08-04-2022, 09:28 PM   #19
leclerc78
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Quote:
Yeah. I admit my Chromebook and Samsung phone overwhelm me sometimes.
Windows, Mac, Linux, Chromebook, Android ... they all overwhelm me all the time.
I worked in IT ... IBM AS/400.
 
Old 08-04-2022, 10:01 PM   #20
sundialsvcs
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Wow. I guess that I hadn't looked closely at this nonsensical marketing strategy. I thought that they had finally abandoned it, but obviously I was wrong. (I pity them ...)

Yes, the original Windows-NT architecture ... and many characteristics of the present system ... are drenched in "VMS lore," this being one of many legendary operating systems that I actually encountered and used for many years. Microsoft Corporation used DEC computers, and very complicated macro systems, to produce all of the various platform-specific "BASICs" which were their initial bread-and-butter.

@leclerc78: The "AS/400" was the "legendary operating system" that I encountered the least, and used the least, and it still baffles me. (Including the simple fact that "it is still around," despite the extraordinarily-versatile hardware capabilities of the modern "iSeries." After all these decades, "we still seem to have 'RPG' ..."
 
Old 08-05-2022, 12:09 AM   #21
enorbet
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That a DEC employee gifted MS with the means to create Win NT is just a smoke screen only possible because though he was bound by an NDA, DEC was in the process of bankruptcy and was no longer in a position to litigate. The true source of most of NT was MS work on IBM's OS/2. To this day in 2022, older forms of the NT file system are often detected as HPFS, the file system of OS/2. MS obviously contributed a lot toward OS/2 so they did have a legitimate interest in ownership but naturally wanted to avoid years of costly litigation to prove it. IBM WAS most definitely in a position to litigate, but they failed to realize ol' Billy Boy basically majored in poker at Harvard and conveniently forgot he had hoodwinked them with DOS.
 
Old 08-05-2022, 01:13 AM   #22
chrism01
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Back in the day when desktop computers were still fairly new, a bunch of scientists got together and tested non-users against learning one of MS, MAC & Linux (GUIs).
The results showed that they were all pretty similar in terms of effort.

However back then and still now, MS dominates the desktop /laptop mkt & that's the way most commercial companies wrote/write SW: MS then maybe Mac and then (if you were very lucky) Linux or open src it.

So, as others have said, it's what you are used to, plus SW+HW avail for that platform.

These days Mac is a bigger percentage of the mkt, but realistically, the desktop mkt for Linux is still miniscule by comparison .
Servers on the other hand
 
Old 08-05-2022, 04:35 AM   #23
yancek
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Quote:
1. DOS = Microsoft didn't design it. They bought it.
Yes they did, from a court declared thief in a civil suit he brought himself. Evans' book is excellent for people interested in such things, very little of it is related to IT.

https://www.theregister.com/2007/07/...suit_resolved/
 
Old 08-05-2022, 06:08 AM   #24
TenTenths
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
According to the Windows 10 wikipedia page, there have been 14 versions of Windows 10 since 2015.
Not sure what point you're trying to make with that statement. Ubuntu has had 16 since 2015, Redhat 24 since 2015 across 5 major versions.
 
Old 08-05-2022, 06:43 AM   #25
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTenths View Post
Not sure what point you're trying to make with that statement. Ubuntu has had 16 since 2015, Redhat 24 since 2015 across 5 major versions.
Did you read the whole post? Or are you just taking that part of it out of context?

It should make sense to you if you read it with the sentences immediately before it and immediately after it.
 
Old 08-05-2022, 07:54 AM   #26
leclerc78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Billy Boy basically majored in poker at Harvard and conveniently forgot he had hoodwinked them with DOS.
It was IBM who handled the cake to Bill, they did not think the microcomputer platform would make a serious dent in the marketplace.
Admittedly we have to give credit to Bill that he has the capability to predict and manipulate the future.
 
Old Yesterday, 03:02 AM   #27
kernelhead
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From post #6 in this thread, perhaps this problem with getting my scanner to work is a good example of the point I'm trying to make - particularly that Windows and Mac OS are much closer to being standards than the over 200 distros of Linux (although there are f
 
Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM   #28
kernelhead
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From post #6 in this thread, perhaps this problem with getting my scanner to work is a good example of the point I'm trying to make - particularly that Windows and Mac OS are much closer to being standards than the over 200 distros of Linux (although there are far fewer Linux envirnoments - especially as time goes by).

Currently with Linux, besides my current scanner issue, I once had an issue that I was willing to pay $ to someone to help me on the phone, or even mail my box to, to have the problem solved). Back then, I could not find either solution via Apple Care (and it wasn't a system 76 purchase) - previously I could find neither solution on the phone (or online).

My point(s) may be wrong. However, my point is that when really really in a bind, I could resort to calling for help, such as Apple support, & at least paying to get a problem fixed/rectified. Back when I was a paying member, I even actually had Apple Support show up and fix hardware issue(s) by switching out component(s).

Now, with Linux, I actually have the knowledge to do hardware repairs myself. Now, with Linux, I know to go to one of my 2 go to web sites to get help - most always via being told what to do with the command line in terminal. Etc, etc, etc ...

What I'm getting at, & I think most here realize, is answering the original OP's post, which is that Windows/Mac is easier to fix. Many, if not most, slightly older people dislike computers. Other than perhaps the past 2 recent generations, they do not like to use computers, find them difficult to deal with, and may even cringe at the thought of trying to fix either software or hardware issues. It's certainly due to a generational gap. Furthermore, they certainly are hard workers and strive to make every dime stretch, but nevertheless would be willing to pay a shop to fix their computer issue(s). But for those on the fence, I certainly believe those willing to do so, would much rather deal with a PC or Mac when trying to get a scanner to work...
 
  


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