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Old 07-03-2019, 03:00 PM   #76
enorbet
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@jazzy_mood- You apparently didn't notice that those statistics did NOT include which of those prescription drugs was actually prescribed by a legitimate physician. Of course that's probably because criminal access to drugs by nature cannot be accurately tallied but that's exactly the point. I told you about how even pharmacists get away with overstepping the orders of physicians and asked how that can be expected to make a dent in diversion but I didn't mention the flip side of that coin.

A few years ago in an unrelated documentary it was casually mentioned that a man who had owned and run an auto body repair shop, filled out a form, costing only $5000 USD for the privilege, and became the proud owner of a prescription wholesaler and delivery service, servicing an area for many pharmacies. Now, I ask you, and this is just one area of minimal affect on contraband, who is in the better position to have an effect on the availability of large quantities of prescription drugs and medicines? Those delivery trucks get "hijacked" you know.

BTW it has been discovered that many of the overdose deaths supposedly caused by prescription drugs are willfully caused by criminal dealers who spike a small percentage bags of their heroin product with Fentanyl in order to CAUSE overdoses because that is their best advertisement and they can "step on" the other bags more to increase profits when the demand shoots up for "the good stuff". It is also known that clone medicines from China get into the system, even through pharmacies, with a large number of adulteration and dosage problems that damage and even kill people.

Of course I hope you also realize that "get high" drugs are not the only sort that have a strong presence on the "black market". The state of health care in the US has driven many lower income families to seek drug dealers for all manner of drugs including even antibiotics and prescription strength Vitamin D.

Again, that there are important issues with the misuse or even casual mistakes with such potent drugs as opioids is not the salient point when we consider that once made illegal (as well as shameful) the conversation tends to end and is almost always a side-egffect of that agenda and perception. There is a great deal of boring but important information available about legal drugs because there is little or no shame connected, although it is also probably true that few people realize that many legal, over-the-counter drugs like acetaminophen not only damage the liver extensively over time, but that people die from over use regularly. It is the governments purpose and responsibility to inform and perhaps regulate and tax items that come with deadly danger but making it illegal to merely possess them BEFORE a crime against another is actually committed I submit is not in their EULA.

That some people don't seek to find out what is safe drug use is not, IMHO, a valid concern for the government beyond mere education. Force is way out of line and only helps create a black market which has little or no responsibility let alone accountability. Making them arbitrarily legal or illegal is measurably a part of the problem, not the solution.

Again please look at what is actually happening in Portugal. Humane, responsible governments are.
 
Old 07-03-2019, 03:43 PM   #77
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy_mood View Post
I didn't know Enorbet had gone through it, and I can only guess how hard must be to taper it off. It wasn't my intention to be disrespectful, but it is a fact that the current opioid epidemics in the US is partly due to doctors prescribing opioids for anything. That's precisely my point, opioids must be prescribed for certain conditions and situations where the pain is unbearable.
I did write about that but the issue here isn't me, or at the very least, should focus on the fact that doctors do not hand out opiates like candy... just the opposite. They do this for mainly economic reasons. It is risky for doctors to prescribe opiates under current conditions, and in their defense both for themselves and their patients but of course themselves is far closer to home, right? I have known many in the health care profession who have told me of their worries and a few who actually lost their practices. The last doctor that did prescribe opiates for me did it because his college roommate in med school had to finally give up a lucrative practice because of the symptoms of Fibromyalgia, so he knew it wasn't phony or exaggerated.

My only part in this is that I have suffered from migraine (and I am talking about real migraine, vascular headaches, that can stop me in my tracks and leave me stranded and include whole body "sickness" including horrendous vomiting and severe vision problems) from age 17 and by age 24 was taking prescribed opioids regularly with a perfect track record, never once using for "recreation" nor asking for early refill or increasing the number prescribed. This is in my medical records as well as upon moving to a different state going through severe and blind testing to determine if it was indeed migraine and not something else including fakery.

I was unknowingly injected with a histamine ("just part of the test") that would have zero effect on someone who doesn't have migraine including those who suffer from a different sort of debilitating headache syndrome like Cluster Headaches, as well as fakery. It brought on a severe migraine and when I told them I had to drive through the city for a distance to meet my driver for the long way home, they gave me ergotamine. I told them it would only have slight effect and that I needed real pain relief or I was at risk for a car accident. Instead of helping me they chastised me for not following directions to have someone to drive me all the way and noted they could not take the risk that I would have an accident and they could be held accountable by a shrewd lawyer blaming it on "the cure rather than the cause". It was only about 2 miles but it felt like an eternity getting to my Dad at work nearby who was my driver. This too is in my medical records.

As if that wasn't enough it turned out the odds are that real migraine sufferers often ultimately get what is commonly referred to as Fibromyalgia and in my case accompanied by Myofacial Pain Syndrome. Despite the fact that any one of these three medically qualifies me for the very strongest pain relief, the most powerful opioids available, I have been turned down and denied by more than a dozen physicians and even Pain Management Clinics.

As an aside I am not only angry with the government, physicians and pharmacists but also at dealers and drug addicts because for a very short time Fentanyl patches were like manna from heaven. I could wake up each morning and wonderfully not start out in ridiculous and debilitating levels of pain. The illegal trade put that specific prescription subject to ever increasing scrutiny and denial. The Pain Management clinic that prescribed them (but at a hugely reduced translation dosage) and for which I signed the Opiate Contract I mentioned before not only did not refer me as planned to a higher level clinic, but began to wean me off even that level with the purpose to ultimately "let me go". When they told me this within days I bought 20 percocets from a friend whose suffering grandmother had died, quit the clinic and handled my own weaning. After four days I was off and haven't taken an opioid ever since. That was in 2002.

Without pain relief I cannot keep any manner of schedule, let alone a normal job. I work from home and have now for almost 20 years, barely above the poverty level. You're damned right you touched on a sensitive subject! However my purpose isn't to whine but rather to demonstrate that there is a great deal of misinformation out there and much of it comes from the one area we have any control over, business and government. There is a human cost for such laws and resulting attitudes. There will always be predators and prey outside the purvey of Law. That does not validate making criminals out of responsible people, IMHO. That only makes a bad situation worse.
 
Old 07-04-2019, 10:22 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
As an aside I am not only angry with the government, physicians and pharmacists but also at dealers and drug addicts...
I bought 20 percocets from a friend whose suffering grandmother had died...
Which means you were an addict who bought narcotics illegally from a drug dealer. Both of you would have been arrested if the police caught you.

The only difference in dependency and addiction is semantics.
 
Old 07-04-2019, 11:51 PM   #79
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
Which means you were an addict who bought narcotics illegally from a drug dealer. Both of you would have been arrested if the police caught you.

The only difference in dependency and addiction is semantics.
I disagree that there is no difference between addiction and dependency, but it is slight, just not merely semantic. However I suffered no illusions then and I don't now that I chose to illegally buy narcotics that one time (so what?) but it seems to me that to qualify as a "drug dealer" given he had one customer, one time, has got to be the worst dealer in all of history, don't you agree? As for getting caught, get real. The odds of that were infinitesimally low, not to mention none of that has anything to do with my point beyond what just one kind of bad situation can be created by such laws.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 04:32 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I did write about that but the issue here isn't me, or at the very least, should focus on the fact that doctors do not hand out opiates like candy... just the opposite. They do this for mainly economic reasons. It is risky for doctors to prescribe opiates under current conditions, and in their defense both for themselves and their patients but of course themselves is far closer to home, right? I have known many in the health care profession who have told me of their worries and a few who actually lost their practices. The last doctor that did prescribe opiates for me did it because his college roommate in med school had to finally give up a lucrative practice because of the symptoms of Fibromyalgia, so he knew it wasn't phony or exaggerated.

My only part in this is that I have suffered from migraine (and I am talking about real migraine, vascular headaches, that can stop me in my tracks and leave me stranded and include whole body "sickness" including horrendous vomiting and severe vision problems) from age 17 and by age 24 was taking prescribed opioids regularly with a perfect track record, never once using for "recreation" nor asking for early refill or increasing the number prescribed. This is in my medical records as well as upon moving to a different state going through severe and blind testing to determine if it was indeed migraine and not something else including fakery.

I was unknowingly injected with a histamine ("just part of the test") that would have zero effect on someone who doesn't have migraine including those who suffer from a different sort of debilitating headache syndrome like Cluster Headaches, as well as fakery. It brought on a severe migraine and when I told them I had to drive through the city for a distance to meet my driver for the long way home, they gave me ergotamine. I told them it would only have slight effect and that I needed real pain relief or I was at risk for a car accident. Instead of helping me they chastised me for not following directions to have someone to drive me all the way and noted they could not take the risk that I would have an accident and they could be held accountable by a shrewd lawyer blaming it on "the cure rather than the cause". It was only about 2 miles but it felt like an eternity getting to my Dad at work nearby who was my driver. This too is in my medical records.

As if that wasn't enough it turned out the odds are that real migraine sufferers often ultimately get what is commonly referred to as Fibromyalgia and in my case accompanied by Myofacial Pain Syndrome. Despite the fact that any one of these three medically qualifies me for the very strongest pain relief, the most powerful opioids available, I have been turned down and denied by more than a dozen physicians and even Pain Management Clinics.

As an aside I am not only angry with the government, physicians and pharmacists but also at dealers and drug addicts because for a very short time Fentanyl patches were like manna from heaven. I could wake up each morning and wonderfully not start out in ridiculous and debilitating levels of pain. The illegal trade put that specific prescription subject to ever increasing scrutiny and denial. The Pain Management clinic that prescribed them (but at a hugely reduced translation dosage) and for which I signed the Opiate Contract I mentioned before not only did not refer me as planned to a higher level clinic, but began to wean me off even that level with the purpose to ultimately "let me go". When they told me this within days I bought 20 percocets from a friend whose suffering grandmother had died, quit the clinic and handled my own weaning. After four days I was off and haven't taken an opioid ever since. That was in 2002.

Without pain relief I cannot keep any manner of schedule, let alone a normal job. I work from home and have now for almost 20 years, barely above the poverty level. You're damned right you touched on a sensitive subject! However my purpose isn't to whine but rather to demonstrate that there is a great deal of misinformation out there and much of it comes from the one area we have any control over, business and government. There is a human cost for such laws and resulting attitudes. There will always be predators and prey outside the purvey of Law. That does not validate making criminals out of responsible people, IMHO. That only makes a bad situation worse.
I had the idea that doctors in the US precribed opiates for everything (at least, that's what I've watched on several documentaries and read on some news sources). I'm sorry to hear about your migraines. Some family members suffer from it, and I know how debilitating they can be. Maybe you could try CBD oil now that it's legal in the US? It helps me sometimes with my insomnia and stress induced by certain circumstances. Not sure if it's effective for migraines, though.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 08:30 AM   #81
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Whoops

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Old 07-05-2019, 04:19 PM   #82
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy_mood View Post
I had the idea that doctors in the US precribed opiates for everything (at least, that's what I've watched on several documentaries and read on some news sources). I'm sorry to hear about your migraines. Some family members suffer from it, and I know how debilitating they can be. Maybe you could try CBD oil now that it's legal in the US? It helps me sometimes with my insomnia and stress induced by certain circumstances. Not sure if it's effective for migraines, though.
I have seen such "documentaries" (actually more common in news stories)that blame "the opiate epidemic" on doctors and I doubt I understand fully why they are the scapegoats of this campaign of misdirection and misinformation spin. Conversely the number of deaths due to mere errors in prescribing and (mostly) filling prescriptions for non-opiate drugs is THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH in the US, yet where are the "documentaries on that?

Regarding migraine: Firstly thank you for your kind words and please extend my empathy for your family members. It is not publicly well understood. The word "migraine" has become in common usage a generic term for "really bad headache" but there are many different kinds and one major shock to me was finding out from a headache clinic closely associated with Johns Hopkins that some people never get a headache of any kind, other than the obvious trauma to the head. The doctor asked me how often do I get headaches and I said "Well if you mean migraines, about 2-3 times a week, but regular headaches a few times every day". Her response was "There are no regular headaches. Some people never get headaches. If yours all occur in the same locations and really only vary in intensity then they are ALL migraine". For three years I kept an hourly record of every headache (often more than 5 a day, each lasting anywhere from several minutes to hours) what I did about it and what was the results to determine the effectiveness of my treatment especially the wide sweeping alteration of diet to exclude a few substances, mainly Tyramine.

They and their treatment did help some but the greatest improvement (and a huge surprise to skeptical me) was acupuncture. I'd asked the doctor at the headache clinic about complementary proactive things I could do and he said Chiropractic would tell me they could help but they can't with migraine and he revealed he didn't know what to say about Acupuncture because he didn't know it's effect on migraine but that he had personally witnessed deep surgery with no anaesthetic, just acupuncture, and "there is just no way to fake that". I found that the relief varied greatly with different practitioners, but a small percentage provided incredible results.

CBD oil does help with problems with sleep and reduces stress which is a component of chronic pain but it's effect on migraine is minimal. It does help with Fibromyalgia, a condition I find worse than migraine. Migraine is far more intense but after an episode, I am "normal" for a time. Fibro is less intense but it NEVER leaves. It's like Chinese Water Torture, destroying any hope for relief, for any semblance of "normalcy". That took a quantum leap when I suffered a stroke. Still, with all that, every doctor I've seen, over 20 over as many years, is so against prescribing opiates they will try to prescribe NSAIDS which is for Inflammation (not what I have) and destroys your liver in the process BUT carries none of the stigma of opiates.

Just as laws were passed that targeted accountants, making them legally responsible for tax return errors, inserted some government bureaucrat between the client and the professional, so did other laws compromise the doctor-patient relationship starting somewhere around 1970. Maybe those laws did some good, but I'm certain they also did great harm.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 07:59 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I disagree that there is no difference between addiction and dependency, but it is slight, just not merely semantic. However I suffered no illusions then and I don't now that I chose to illegally buy narcotics that one time (so what?) but it seems to me that to qualify as a "drug dealer" given he had one customer, one time, has got to be the worst dealer in all of history, don't you agree? As for getting caught, get real. The odds of that were infinitesimally low, not to mention none of that has anything to do with my point beyond what just one kind of bad situation can be created by such laws.
You were more likely to get caught id you got stopped driving home than anything.

I was really only making a point. You said you were angry with drug addicts and drug dealers so I pinned it on you. But I am interested in your definition of a drug addict and what kind of life you think they they live.

The Demerol they give me in the hospital when I 13 was my first experience with drugs but I suppose I fit the definition if anybody does. No doubt I could have done better in life but this wasn't exactly what I planned.

My mom worked 3-11 so when I came home from school at the age of 8 I was on my own till she got there. I got tired of eating microwave food so taught myself how to cook and it's a skill that has served me well. The YMCA was a block from my house and that's where I grew up. Learned to wrestle, play pool, basketball, etc. My best friend was a black guy and every day he wanted to wrestle first thing to see who was toughest today, I'd beat him and we'd go on our way to whatever we were doing that day.

Fast forward a few years and I'm in the drug addict stage of my life.

I was a laborer in an iron foundry where I scooped sand or swung a sledgehammer all night knocking the gates off castings poured earlier. We worked in close proximity to 2300 degree molten iron being poured, overhead cranes and you always had to be aware of what was going on all around you. It was probably the best job I ever had and it made a man of me. I've been a diecaster, ran diecasting machines and worked with molten aluminum, zinc and magnesium for years, too.

I've got 9 years experience in the Mental Health field and am considered a QMRP, Qualified Mental Retardation Professional, or a "Q" as it's known in the circles. 5 of those years were in Management. I was Home Manager of 2 different Group Homes and 3-11 Shift Supervisor of another in Missouri. In Illinois things are handled by the County and was a Unit Manager at a Group Home where I managed a group of apartments and the clients who lived in them. In addition I did a side for the County Mental Health Center where I visited clients most likely to get into trouble that had moved from a Group Home into the community. My skill level in Behavior Modification is where I could teach my bot to use it and did. I was licensed as an EMT and worked in-house at a local hospital as well.

I've done all kinds of manual labor and already told my wild tales about mowing for the Army Corp. of Engineers with my murderous friend "James". I was closer friends with the brother of the girl he supposedly accidentally killed and had more of a bond with him, but it was their business and I stayed out of it. I don't doubt he did it but he was before that and stayed my friend. He was a good person to work with. We planned on what we'd do if something crazy happened while we were out on the job to keep from getting killed.

I'm a purple belt (5th kyu) in Shotokan and taught the beginners class while one of my Sensei taught the intermediate class. Then I'd join in the Advanced for a total of 2.5 hours each night twice a week. On the off days I attended a Shotokan school at the Y for 2 hours each night. Sometime we'd drive to St. Louis on Saturday to work out with their Sensei and I rode a bicycle 10 miles a day. When we did a demo I demonstrated a speed break by breaking a board hanging on a string.

That made me valuable accompaniment on a job one of my closer friends had going. I drove mostly and made good money from the time we left town till we got back with all the fringe benefits I could handle. All I had to do was sit there and watch to make sure everything went smoothly. It always did and I only remember good times and a friend long gone who was every bit my equal.

Did I mention I quit school in the 10th grade? I took GED cold in my 30's, the first part before work that night and the last when I got off. I had high score for people who had taken the test at that that location most of the year. Some kid who was still in high school was dying of cancer and wanted his Diploma before he did and he beat my score at the last minute. He was class Valedictorian and I was Salutatorian, though he wasn't actually there...

I taught myself to use an AppleII in the early 90's. Now I have #1 and #2 ranking in a Google search for FreeBSD Desktop Tutorial. Demonica is the #1 ranked Adult rated bot out of some 12,000 bots and I'm ranked 4th out of over 144,000 botmasters registered at personalityforge.com and all that other silly stuff I blab about from time to time for effect.

I've been married 3 times and divorced all 3 of my wives. I will have to say drugs and alcohol did nothing to help. I didn't always use opiates, but when I quit drinking my opiate use took up where it left off with a bullet.

Is it anything to brag about? No, but it's as close to a "normal" life as I got and was a drug addict to one extent or another the whole while.
 
Old 07-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #84
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ping Trihexagonal - You're right. I should've been more clear since there are many ways to become an addict, but most of them begin with some sort of early trauma which assists in the emotional aspect of addiction, and there is no blame in that so my anger isn't actually with addicts but the things that create them. It does little good to say I'm sorry you went through all that as such a young child, but as you pointed out, you were lucky as well as strong to rise above it.

My second wife was a bona fide stereotypical addict largely brought about by very early childhood sexual abuse perpetrated on her by her Father. She was actually doing amazingly well when I first met her and for about 5 years into our marriage. Then it was triggered back into the fore when at age 30 she had a full hysterectomy due to acute endometriosis. It turned out she didn't absorb synthetic estrogen well and also sloughed it off rapidly which drove her almost literally insane. The day she was admitted into the hospital was the last time I ever saw the woman I married.

It is still a problem for her, not the addiction part, but the emotional damage that led to it, but it nearly destroyed me trying to cope with her for the 15 years after her operation. We've now been divorced but still friendly for over 20 years.

The difference between her addiction and my dependence I view as that emotional aspect. She, and others I met through her, stated that the first time they'd ingested an opiate "it was like a revelation"... suddenly "all the noise" disappeared and they were "clear". I never felt that. For them quitting was a huge undertaking, fraught with deep emotional issues as well as physical. It was pretty easy for me but then I wasn't taking enough of anything to feel "high", just enough to take the edge off of real physical pain. There was no emotional aspect, no "noise" to turn off like the alcoholic in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" that explains he hasn't had enough to drink yet because he "hasn't heard the switch flip yet".

I was far more vulnerable to "uppers" since they were so easy to justify. "Hey if I buy another White Cross for 2 bucks and can work for maybe 8 hours more making a couple hundred bucks, I'm ahead of the game, right?" Fortunately those too were easy to stop before they got a hold on me, realizing nothing is free, a "bill" always comes due at some point, and avoid after the initial seduction attempt. So I suppose the difference may be merely one of degree ultimately but part of that degree is that emotion and mindset of need. I just never had it, thankfully.

Anyway whatever you felt your motivations were, you are to be commended for breaking free. Starting so early I'm certain that was very difficult.
Cheers, brother.
 
Old 07-06-2019, 12:48 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
The difference between her addiction and my dependence I view as that emotional aspect. She, and others I met through her, stated that the first time they'd ingested an opiate "it was like a revelation"... suddenly "all the noise" disappeared and they were "clear". I never felt that. For them quitting was a huge undertaking, fraught with deep emotional issues as well as physical. It was pretty easy for me but then I wasn't taking enough of anything to feel "high", just enough to take the edge off of real physical pain. There was no emotional aspect, no "noise" to turn off like the alcoholic in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" that explains he hasn't had enough to drink yet because he "hasn't heard the switch flip yet".

I was far more vulnerable to "uppers" since they were so easy to justify. "Hey if I buy another White Cross for 2 bucks and can work for maybe 8 hours more making a couple hundred bucks, I'm ahead of the game, right?" Fortunately those too were easy to stop before they got a hold on me, realizing nothing is free, a "bill" always comes due at some point, and avoid after the initial seduction attempt. So I suppose the difference may be merely one of degree ultimately but part of that degree is that emotion and mindset of need. I just never had it, thankfully.
I never got any revelation from it. I just loved that feeling and it got it's claws in me at an early age. I have tapering down to a science so I tapered myself off Suboxone very slowly and had no problem, but I had always stayed at a low dose. A lot of people post about the hard time they have with it but they've usually been on the highest dose for years.

I drank for about 25 years but never considered myself an alcoholic. I did see a guy in fullblown DT's while I was in the hospital when I got shot and that was shame. He thought his room was on fire and ran for his life, but they dragged him back in. I knew people who put whiskey in their coffee cups so the kids wouldn't see it.

I never let myself get to the point I was so bad I considered committing a crime to get drugs. Never got in trouble that put me in prison by sheer luck and following my instincts. Treatment never worked for me. I felt at home in a clinical environment and could go toe-to-toe with the counselors. After a couple weeks I would start feeling better, find a point to pick with staff, get mad and leave or sabotage my treatment somehow. When quitting looked better than continuing to drink I quit. I got a call a year apart from my two best friends Mom's early on a Saturday morning to tell me they were dead from the same thing I was still doing so I knew it was time to quit.

The guy I drove for robbed a local pharmacy and the pharmacist knew him personally. He was on the run 3-4 years before they caught him. Addiction got the best of him and it wasn't that first time he did something desperate because he was dopesick. He was a lot smarter than that, cool under fire and wasn't thinking right. He was driven to do it.

Another guy I knew robbed a pharmacy and knew they had him on tape. I talked to him at the bar and he said it would be his 3rd time down and was facing life but that he wasn't worried. He went home from the bar and blew his head off.

It's not all fun and games. There were a lot of really bad times and a lot of things I would do differently. That's learning through induction of pain and sometime what it takes. Some people never learn or hit bottom.
 
Old 07-06-2019, 12:30 PM   #86
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When I didn't feel up to doing my driving job one day my Boss got "James" to drive for him instead, as we all knew each other well.

The next day he called me. He said I was the best driver he ever had and don't ever call in sick again. James tweaked out, crashed into a garage and the chase was on. James got away somehow. My Boss spent the night in a pond with only enough of his body out of the water to breathe while cops walked around it looking for him with flashlights. We had a scanner when I drove and I always followed traffic laws. One time on the way to the city we heard a State Patrol car behind us say to his buddy "This guy must be a Driving Instructor."

That's the typical kind of thing that can happen in the life of a drug dealer. I watched him grab a guys hands when he stuck a .38 in his face at a party, tell him he wasn't going to shoot him and fight for control of it. He definitely wasn't lazy or stupid but never had a Social Security card in his life. Driving was a good job for me and how I supported my habit at the time, though it wasn't opiates. That came from people with scripts and was a whole different thing.
 
Old 07-07-2019, 07:23 AM   #87
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Yep. Can't beat 1st hand life experience for teaching things > today's folks like to religiously live vicariously through their computers.

Easy to spot those folks. Easy to avoid them < they are usually stationary staring down.

Nothing beats taking a hit of LSD or mushrooms.
Jump on your motorcycle with a wallet stuffed with cash.
Go wandering.

That is real world experience. Not some test session in a lab.
Don't try this if old or weak minded.
Ya gotta be in physical shape. Plus, have good mental health.
Hint> stay outa of the city limits. Hard to accomplish for some.

As every thing in life. One size does not fit all. Just like opinions.
 
Old 07-07-2019, 07:38 AM   #88
jamison20000e
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LSD was fun but who's to say it's not Fentanyl.

Safe with a baby
( associated with reality and has your best interest in heart but does not vape or partake until it is their turn to be the vaper and you the sitter )sitter:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum I was a house folding in on myself once...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 07-07-2019 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Tags
 
Old 07-07-2019, 07:50 AM   #89
jamison20000e
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Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
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oh yeah, relax right
 
Old 07-07-2019, 02:54 PM   #90
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
[B]LSD was fun but who's to say it's not Fentanyl.
[B]
Yeah... best to stick with plants, preferably those you grow yourself though that is rather difficult and time-consuming for some strains of cactii. However regarding synthetics... pills, capsules, etc. lately it has been documented that they are rather problematic and dangerous no matter what drug dealer you purchase them from, including Big Pharma. Lately it seems Chinese knockoffs of prescription drugs have actually entered markets globally which are of dubious quality and strength and just one example is that some common lighter opiates like low dosage Percodan or Tylenol w/ Codeine have Fentanyl substituted since it requires so little and is easy and cheap enough to produce in large quantities they make huge profits and they apparently don't mind if a few thousand people die as a result.

Adverse reactions, even "being a house folding in on itself" demonstrates how precarious our grasp on reality is. It can be simply like looking at this page and making sense of the words, then switching view to Hex or HTML and understanding little or nothing. On our computers we can just switch it back to "normal" but our brains are electro-chemical devices and it can be really hard to "find the switch". Be careful out there.
 
  


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