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cousinlucky 09-15-2016 11:02 AM

Humans and drugs!
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is on a mission to kill drug dealers and users while in some other places the opposite approach of full legality is being tried!! If you asked 100 different people what would they do you would probably get 100 different answers!! This article might interest you:

hazel 09-15-2016 11:06 AM

Whatever harm drugs do, it's hard to see how forcing people to buy them from criminals can improve matters.

cousinlucky 09-15-2016 11:43 AM

Hello Hazel!! Here upon Staten Island a " drug epidemic " is in progress with people over dosing almost daily!! Heroin, pills, etc.,etc. are being sold everywhere and the police and politicians are being corrupted!! Narcotics will never be made legal here because too many people are making huge profits keeping drugs illegal!! Here is an article about a 5 year old with 30 hits of heroin at school!!

dugan 09-15-2016 11:59 AM

I read Chasing the Scream earlier this year.

That's all I feel confident saying about this.

hazel 09-15-2016 12:01 PM

When I was growing up, drug addicts could get clean morphine on prescription from certain licensed doctors. They usually took only a maintenance dose and could function normally in society, holding down a job. They didn't sell their prescription drugs on the black market because there was no black market. And there were not a lot of addicts anyway because no one had a financial interest in getting people addicted. Americans used to admire our system.

Then sometime in the 60s there was a moral panic about doctors prescribing drugs and they were made illegal. Now we have hundreds if not thousands of addicts.

cousinlucky 09-15-2016 12:55 PM

Anything that " government " bans or taxes too much just creates an illegal market and all of the social evil ills that go along with any profitable criminal activity!! Untaxed cigarettes and liquor, drugs, guns, prostitution, gambling, etc. are all readily available in my neighborhood!! Things are getting so bad here I call this place Satanville!!

ondoho 09-15-2016 12:56 PM

re post #1:
should we consider the differences between drug export countries and drug import countries?

Habitual 09-15-2016 02:25 PM

Drug (ab)use is merely a symptom.

cousinlucky 09-15-2016 04:02 PM

People abuse substances so that they can continue to lie to themselves; day in and day out!! The easiest person to fool and delude outright is the person you look at in the mirror!!

Habitual 09-15-2016 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by cousinlucky (Post 5605792)
People abuse substances...

There is nothing new under the sun.

jefro 09-15-2016 08:58 PM

You'd have to live in the PI for a few years first to understand the people. You can not take your way of thinking and apply it to other cultures. You may say that this is a third world country and extreme but all you have to do is go a bit farther to Singapore and see that drugs are a death sentence. Singapore has a culture of strict laws and law abiding citizens. The culture in PI isn't at all like Japan or Singapore. They elected him though a very high turn out as everyone is expected to vote. I'm sure there is voting fraud there but it is as good as they can get it.

Drugs are a serious problem to civilization. People might be making money off the poor souls that are foolish enough to use drugs. It is also true that drug users are dangerous to themselves and others. Their habits are the cause of major crime even in the most liberal countries. There is no place on earth were drug abuse is good. The huge burden on social services rob the poor and needy of basic services.

frankbell 09-15-2016 09:29 PM


It is also true that drug users are dangerous to themselves and others. Their habits are the cause of major crime even in the most liberal countries.
I really don't have an opinion yes or no here, but I can't help wondering to what extent criminalizing even the most innocuous drugs (say, for example, marijuana) leads ipso facto to criminality by making more criminals by fiat. At what point does a "war on drugs" become a self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuating the very war it has failed to win?

Would there have been some better model than that of a war?

Also, too.

enorbet 09-15-2016 11:03 PM

One only has to look at the historical record of Prohibition, where self-righteous moral bigots managed to get the US government to legislate largely private morality to see that such legislation creates criminality, turning a private medical issue into a public, criminal issue. There was no organized crime in the US and gangs were fractious local phenomena until Prohibition was passed.

My immediate reaction upon reading the linked newspaper article about the 5 year old found with some 30 packets of heroin, beyond the initial horror of it, was how in hell did a 5 year old get his hands on roughly $1000.00 worth of anything, let alone illicit drugs. The answer is right in the question. It's only worth ~$1000.00 exactly because it is illicit and that "value" is inflated due to the risk of(and control) based in contraband. Such laws against what would be all but entirely private behaviour require undercover (secret) police because there are few if any victims to report "the crime" so undercover police who threaten those caught into informing becomes the means for arrest. These vice police are routinely exposed to vast sums of money as well as often requiring undercover agents to break the law themselves in order to gain "street cred". This is a recipe for corruption in itself. Worse, the leaders of such criminal organizations are extremely wealthy and powerful, adding to the corruption of the legal system and insuring many of them will never be jailed, let alone stop the flow of contraband.

Hazel's report on the conditions prior to the pressure from the Reagan administration (iirc) in the UK should be the flip side of the understanding of the problems of Prohibition. It has proven itself to actually cause much larger and public problems rather than to do anything at all constructive or useful. Not caving into the Pavloviam knee-jerk reaction to the fear-inducing issue of racism and class-ism that has fueled such an easy "platform" for politician's to avoid real public concerns and the proper realm of government may be difficult for the voting public to grasp but the reality is there for anyone to see the facts if they truly care to respond rather than merely react.

One perfect example is cigarettes in prison. Out in the public cigarettes are only a personal health issue. In prison where they are almost always contraband, the value becomes so great that people kill or demand forced servitude including sex slaves and their predators all for a pack of smokes that is worth a mere few dollars just over the walls where it is legal. The situation is quite literally absurd and utterly avoidable.

ondoho 09-16-2016 02:01 AM

^ thanks for the prohibition comparison (and prison cigarettes).

drugs --- illegal drugs.

the line between those 2 seems completely random.

many legal drugs are way more addictive and unhealthy than some illegal drugs.

and my favorite comment on that matter:
(excerpt: the fatal dose of hash is a 1000pound brick dropped on your head.
if it was legal, one could transport it more safely)

cousinlucky 09-16-2016 04:52 AM

When I was a teenager both the police and the " gangsters " would not allow any narcotics to be sold in the neighborhood because they felt that our society would fall otherwise!! Nowadays in the news are reports like this that indicate our society is indeed falling apart:

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