how to avoid paying the M$ tax
 

Hi you all

I am shopping around for a new laptop and have found just the perfect thing, a Lenovo R61, with everything I need, perfect.
Perfect, but one thing:
Windows Vista Business.

I have so far stayed with XP on all machines that I have to use Windows, avoiding what many people already call the worst OS that M$ has ever released. Now supporting M$ for selling such a resource hog is just more than I can bear.

As a Linux user, I will wipe Vista off the machine anyway and go with Ubuntu or Debian right away, but why do I have to pay for a product that I will not use at all?

Does anybody have experience or know how Lenovo handles the EULA reject/refund for unused product thing with Windows?
I have heard that they are the bad boy on the block and plainly refuse to refund any more whatsoever.

How about reselling the unused Vista? I am sure there are people are there that would want a Vista Business ;-)
What do I have to do so that Vista stays inactivated? (I still have to activate it, otherwise it is not functional and like I did not use it, right?)
Can I legally resell all the original Windows material (and most important of all) the serial number?

I hear people left and right telling me that "what's the big rockus about 100 bucks?" but for me it is the principle. I would gladly pay for an XP, which is the only thing that I would possibly consider to install (for gaming and such).

But as said before, I just can bring myself to support such a garbage as Vista and make M$ just a little fatter, a little more arrogant and a little more bully.
Not with my money.

And if somebody wants to point out: the laptop would be more expensive without Windows on it, that is plain and simple impossible.
Goes against logic, since M$ wants to make money with it too and if they force the OEM to sell their OS less Laptops for more, that is just as illegal as the practices that Standard Oil once pulled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_oil) and that were smashed for being a monopoly that really hurt the market in general.
Bundling a product with another product and forcing the buyer to only being able to aquire both, even though the buyer might not need or want the other.

Markus

It would seem to be a lot less hassle to buy one of the pre-installed Linux systems from Dell or one of the increasing number of vendors who have such an option. I don't think it tends to be any cheaper, because they don't get kickbacks for putting crapware on the machines, but it's good to show your support for them pre-loading Linux. Of course, if they don't do the model you want then you're stuck.

If you do buy a machine with Windows pre-installed (because you can't get the model you want another way), make sure you write to the vendor and tell them that you would have preferred it if Linux was pre-installed.

Better still, why not support one of the smaller Linux pre-installed vendors?

Because it's expensive...

Dell seems to be the cheapest so far in the "per configured Linux box" market.

System76: $1200
Dell: $975

Similar builds...

-C

I don't know about Switzerland, But here in the UK the vendors are obliged to refund the money for the Windows if you disagree with the license.
... hmm, maybe someone should make a HOWTO for this for each country. I might get 'round to doing it if someone can host it.

There are several places now to buy laptops with no OS installed. I was pleased to see that HP offers this option. (Saves $75)

Because there are now choices, I can't get very upset with vendors that don't want to help you get a refund.

If I were shopping for a laptop, I would ask the dealer if they would assist in getting the Windows refund.

In the USA, the first step in the HOW-TO is to get a government that is willing to take action against monopolists and corporate greed. I think we have a fighting chance of doing this in 7 months.

Really? Where is it? I went to HP's website and I didn't see this option...

Hmm...can you enlighten us? I'd be really interested in an HP :D

-C

One example---look at the Operating system options

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFram...&SBLID=S_ADMIN

Gotta Love FreeDOS :)

Ok, now we are going somewhere!

So that would make HP an option for me.
Thanks for that great pointer!

Markus

Just checked out the offerings and.... not bad..

Now I got some questions:

1. Compaq! Help! I remember Compaq as THE company putting nonstandard, drop-dead-proprietary technologies in their computers, requiring drivers for the most mundane of things. I am really glad that they went the way of the dodo, but now the name still adorns the systems (I am amazed how brand brainwashed human beings). I know that HP helps Linux big time (i.e. printers and server) and support it big, but Compaq?
Has anyone of you a HP laptop? Is the Compaq thing just some brand waving or is the old specter still in it?

2. FreeDOS... Heck, who REALLY uses FreeDOS? Isn't that a little hypocratic to install something that you know nobody is going to use? Can't they just say "install your own" or would there be be morons that try to cut corners price wise and throw out the OS (what is THAT anyway, don't need that) and then are surprised that the laptop...does.......nothing? ;-)
*grin*

At least I got a bargaining chip now, to tell Lenovo that I would like to buy theirs, but cannot since they force me into buying Vista. Not that I think that they care, unfortunately, these large corporations don't care about one customer and neither the bad publicity and word of mouth that he/she might generate.

But I will try and report back when I know more.

There is some very wierd stuff going on with the HP site.

I am shooping for a
"Configurable - HP Compaq 8510p Notebook PC w/HP Broadband Wireless (PENRYN)"

and have run into a snag that I cannot have the system with Wireless (Intel) and freedos on it.

Hard to believe, but the processor logo that is on the laptop is blocking the buying process:

there are three choices,
1. Intel centrino duo label
2. Intel centrino pro label
3. Intel core 2 duo label

and unfortunately, there is no way to just choose no logo. I care NIL about the logo really.

Now the error message that the website spouts out and stops me are very interesting:

1. Intel centrino duo label
- The Intel® Centrino® Duo label cannot be chosen with FreeDos, please select Intel® Core 2 Duo label. [4159]

2. Intel centrino pro label
- The Intel® Centrino® Pro Label is not compatible with the FreeDOS operating system. Please change your label selection. [4232]

3. Intel core 2 duo label
- Intel® Core™ Duo Label cannot be selected with Intel® wireless option. Please choose a NON-Intel wireless LAN option or select Intel® Centrino™ Duo Label if Genuine Windows OS is selected. [4766]

So there is something fishy going on with Microsoft. I know that intel wireless chipsets are very well supported with Linux and I don't see why I should have to downgrade to a broadcom just because Microsoft has put the gun on Intels head to only sell Intel Wireless with Windows OSes.
Maybe somebody understands this tactic, very strange.

Sufficient to say, HP could learn tons of stuff for their Webshop by watching how Dell does it.

I agree...the process is starting to get too complicated...going back to Dell...

-C

Moved: This thread is more suitable in General and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

i think the reason you cant get the intel wireless with freedos is that freedos dousent support intel wifi

Doesn't lenovo sell computers with SLED on them?