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Old 04-11-2019, 07:03 AM   #16
Samsonite2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I think some people said the same thing about 10 or 15 years ago...
A very fair point and I am not saying it will, I just think it will. 10 or 15 years ago, I tried Linux and found that I could not use it for work fully or for doing other things like gaming, but now I have fully switched, so at least I can see progress in that time.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 07:30 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
...
Just try to find it in yourself to be a bit more friendly if you can and maybe not start a discussion by throwing a direct insult. For my part, I do sincerely apologize for getting grumpy
While I didn't really take any offence to your post - as I said, I was only giving you my thoughts - saying things like "Just try to find it in yourself to be a bit more friendly..." could also be seen as "insulting". I'd suggest in these situations, it's best to think about the meaning behind the post rather than just looking at how the post is phrased. As this helps avoid any such misunderstands to begin with.

For the record: while I may have been direct, my posts were in no way intended as any form of "insult" towards anyone. I said what I said because your post #1 seemed to imply that Linux was struggling to break into any market, not just the desktop market - which would clearly be a false statement to make (not saying you intended on making that statement).
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:02 AM   #18
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
A very fair point and I am not saying it will, I just think it will. 10 or 15 years ago, I tried Linux and found that I could not use it for work fully or for doing other things like gaming, but now I have fully switched, so at least I can see progress in that time.
There has certainly been a lot of progress, but there are still more than a few shortcomings - if you're talking "mass adoption" by average Joe user.

My philosophy is very simple: If it works for you - it works.

If you consider the typical Linux distribution, with GNU userland, systemd, X11, freedesktop.org stuff including KDE, gnome, etc. You don't see that in use commercially except perhaps Red Hat and SUSE. The hobbyists running the distributions for personal use, are the tiny < 1%, which the fortune 500 companies now bankrolling "Linux" development don't really factor in as a potential market.

Where Linux has "made it", is in embedded, in IoT devices, in google's Android and of course servers, etc, etc. This makes Linux very significant indeed.

The desktop as a whole just got left behind by the smartphone revolution. In the 1990's people had to buy a "computer" - a traditional x86 desktop or laptop or an Apple Mac, in order to access the WWW. That is no longer the case and if one simply wants to access the WWW one does not necessarily need a traditional "wintel" laptop/desktop computer. If Canonical had focused on the phone/tablet market from the start, they might have become a player (but most likely still acquired by a larger entity such as google) - they, like Microsoft, missed the boat.

Last edited by cynwulf; 04-11-2019 at 08:43 AM. Reason: forgot servers, duh - thanks sevendogsbsd
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:31 AM   #19
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As someone else mentioned, Linux is not dominant in the desktop market but dominant in others, namely the infrastructure that runs the entire Internet. Not sure Linux will ever be dominant on the desktop because microsoft got in early and flooded the market, tainting consumer's perceptions and making themselves the only player. Windows is all people know, other than Mac, but they are overpriced in comparison so hold a tiny share.

Doesn't matter to me what is dominant on the desktop. I am a rebel: I don't do anything like anyone else does. I do appreciate the roots of Linux though: it was formed by rebels and by people who bucked the system. Even though I don't use Linux any longer, I have respect for it because of where it came from.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 09:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd View Post
I do appreciate the roots of Linux though: it was formed by rebels and by people who bucked the system.
That is certainly not what the Linux Foundation is about, but the precise opposite.

It certainly innovated as much as Apple did, in the days when it was two men in a garage. But the path of both Apple and Torvalds was (minus a comment about Facebook or a finger at NVidea) as much about getting cozy with corporations as well. Among those, none were more corporate than Red Hat-- their trajectory for years was not against being bought out by a company as large as IBM (I even predicted they would be purchased after Github, though not by IBM.)
 
Old 04-11-2019, 10:59 AM   #21
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For all the trendy cloud this cloud that, there are still countless businesses that rely on Windows-only desktop software. Office, not Windows, is Microsoft's real killer app; the Office Web Apps are neat but they don't offer all the features of the desktop program. And that's just the tip of an enormous iceberg of software, both off-the-shelf and custom.

I don't expect GNU/Linux on the desktop to ever be more than niche. It's got a solid fanbase among hobbyists and those with specialist needs Linux meets, but no more.

Now Android, I feel if Google worked on it and pushed it, that could be adapted to become a leading desktop OS. It's already got its own huge base of software, it would IMHO just need improvements to keyboard-and-mouse usage and multi-user systems. But Google for whatever reason isn't interested and is pushing ChromeOS instead.

OSX might stand a chance if Apple decided to sell it to run on PCs, but they're unlikely to that because Apple's business model is selling premium-price hardware.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 11:10 AM   #22
Samsonite2010
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Originally Posted by cantab View Post
For all the trendy cloud this cloud that, there are still countless businesses that rely on Windows-only desktop software. Office, not Windows, is Microsoft's real killer app; the Office Web Apps are neat but they don't offer all the features of the desktop program. And that's just the tip of an enormous iceberg of software, both off-the-shelf and custom.

I don't expect GNU/Linux on the desktop to ever be more than niche. It's got a solid fanbase among hobbyists and those with specialist needs Linux meets, but no more.

Now Android, I feel if Google worked on it and pushed it, that could be adapted to become a leading desktop OS. It's already got its own huge base of software, it would IMHO just need improvements to keyboard-and-mouse usage and multi-user systems. But Google for whatever reason isn't interested and is pushing ChromeOS instead.

OSX might stand a chance if Apple decided to sell it to run on PCs, but they're unlikely to that because Apple's business model is selling premium-price hardware.
Regarding mobile and android devices - that was the intent of my comment about desktop users moving to tablets (I suppose phones too). I think I saw a stat that said if all OSs are taken into account including mobile and desktop devices, Android has about 60% of the global market, Windows is in the minority, just behind iOS + MacOS combined (MacOs is a tiny market share in this statistic). Definitely gets interesting when you count Android in the mix.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 02:11 PM   #23
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
True, but my son spends about 11-12 hours per day doing other things than sitting in front of a computer - he only spends about 30 mins in front of a computer, if at all. I think he will be all the better for being able to use one.
so he's spending only 30min a day in front of a (any) screen? i'm glad to hear it.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 05:35 PM   #24
Samsonite2010
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Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
so he's spending only 30min a day in front of a (any) screen? i'm glad to hear it.
Yep, he loves playing sports, martial arts, building things in Lego, reading, drawing, etc. all the good stuff. I do end up playing ball in the garden for a couple of hours a day, so I am getting a workout these days!
 
Old 04-13-2019, 05:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd View Post
I do appreciate the roots of Linux though: it was formed by rebels and by people who bucked the system.
Linus Torvalds wanted to have an affordable Unix at home, so he wrote what resulted in a kernel. He was not a rebel who bucked the system, he was penurious.

RMS was betrayed back at the MIT by the people who founded Symbolics, and he also wanted people to have a "free Unix". GNU has been obsolete with the release of the Net/1 release of BSD but they just won't stop writing code, so that's that.

Rebels? No, not at all.
 
  


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