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Old 04-10-2019, 05:03 PM   #1
Samsonite2010
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How is Linux doing these days?


I am writing this post because I feel some significant things have been happening in the Linux world.

There is always some pessimism about how Linux struggles to break into certain markets, but the ingredients are really in place right now. It may be a long-game though...

With so much emphasis on the Cloud, the OS is less important. I am able to 100% do my job (which provides me with a Windows 10 laptop), in Linux or even on my Android phone. All of my customers are moving to cloud too. So I think in the long run, this means that Windows itself is less valid and a slick Web browsing experience is going to be the order of the day.

Gaming is another area - since the native Linux version of Steam, things have looked up - it was all it took for me to ditch Windows, but now we have Proton where you can play almost any title in Linux if there is no native version. This is big indeed. I bought a few AAA Windows titles without even testing them and they worked via Proton. Life is good.

My eldest son is only 5, but he uses a Linux laptop and has never seen Windows, he is getting proficient in computing and finds Xubuntu entirely intuitive - he even shut the laptop down himself without me ever showing him how. It may be a decade later that we see this young generation making their computer choices, but it seems as though Linux may really start to make some headway in the long-term.

What do you guys think? I love the fact that whenever I do a presentation online from my Linux machine, people always want to know what cool PC I have and why it all works so nicely

Last edited by Samsonite2010; 04-10-2019 at 05:04 PM.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:15 PM   #2
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I think Linux is doing OK and will continue to do fine.

Yes, a lot of folks are using the Cloud; but not all. Except for my website, I can do all my work on my Ubuntu OS on my desktop and use an external drive for, non-cloud, storage and back-up. Once I find a reliable, and top-grade, web creator for my Ubuntu OS, I will leave the MS world completely. FYI. I use a laptop with Windows 7 just for my website.

Some of the driving factors in Linux is FOSS and independence from the MS world of control over the OS. I feel that as long Linux / Ubuntu stays FOSS and independent than more people will be attracted to Linux.

It is also my thoughts that the installation process of 'Applications' could be more reliable. With some applications the user needs to work in the terminal to find what is the problem and find coding to fix it. A lot of folks do not find uploading applications user friendly and give up. And, a lot of folks do not have time to search the internet on a daily basis to find out how to work all the different systems on an OS and then how to 'code' the answer.

One example will suffice. I use Chinese characters for my work. I installed the Chinese characters on Windows and it installed with no difficulty at all and within less than 5 minutes, from start to finish, I was using Chinese characters in my work. When I installed the Chinese characters, gcin, on my, previous Linux 17.3 OS, the gcin, after a huge amount of trial and error, would never work so I installed Ubuntu 18.04.2. After a difficult series of steps, and a huge amount of expended time, including searching the internet, I got the gcin to work properly. Quite frankly, I almost gave up installing gcin on any Linux system due to the amount of extended time that I spent.

So, it my opinion that if Linux becomes more 'user-friendly' than more people will install Linux. If Linux does not become more 'user-friendly' than folks will try Linux for awhile and then give up.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 06:26 PM   #3
Samsonite2010
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Thank you for your verbose reply - I think that in your case, Chinese support can only improve. For me have only worked with most nations and for Chinese, they have used a different language, but adding this as a tool in the box, will only improve things.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 10:07 PM   #4
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@greencedar - It seems to me you are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. You first say that considerable attraction for Linux comes because it offers an alternative to "the MS world of control over the OS. Then you say in effect that to keep people it attracts Linux must become more "user friendly". I hope you actually recognize that the only way for a system to become more "user friendly" is for some authority to take control, and dumb it down, make it "idiot proof". I think these are contradictions in fundamental terms.

That said, it seems likely you may have a saviour at the doorstep. Recently IBM invested 34+ BILLION dollars USD to acquire RedHat. I'm certain they plan to use it for servers primarily in support of The Cloud but with that investment I don't see how they can resist offering a Client version. It is impossible to avoid a learning curve altogether for those migrating from Windows unless it is exactly like Windows but IBM has quite a deserved reputation for being thorough and efficient and very likely will offer classes, at least to commercial users, to make that as painless as possible.

It is going to be interesting to see exactly what IBM does with RedHat after such a massive investment and something of a split may occur. Just as Apple OSX is heavily based on/borrowed from/"appropriated" from BSD it is likely IBM will want the sandbox all to themselves and will act in a similar fashion, locking much of their version of Linux down. I actually don't care as long as what I consider "real Linux" is still available, not dumbed down, and stays Admin friendly.

It has long been thought that at some point the OpSys will become superfluous and I suspect that process is well underway. Microsoft's reduced emphasis on OpSys competition and what appears to be a move to a subscription service and increased emphasis on seriously entrenched breadwinners like Office and console gaming may be a signpost leading in that direction. The flexibility, adaptability and power of Linux as well as it's being the single most hardware compatible OpSys in existence very likely means that some variation of it will eventually be everywhere and rule the roost but few will know it, just like it is now with smartphones.

I think Linux has a very bright future but it is unlikely many of us will recognize it anymore. I just hope something of the Old School is still around for those of us who thumb their noses at "user friendly". Some people see compromise as win-win. Others see it as nobody gets what they really want.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 11:01 PM   #5
greencedar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
Thank you for your verbose reply - I think that in your case, Chinese support can only improve. For me have only worked with most nations and for Chinese, they have used a different language, but adding this as a tool in the box, will only improve things.
You are correct. I expect that Chinese support, and support in other areas of the Linux OS, will improve as time goes on.
 
Old 04-10-2019, 11:20 PM   #6
greencedar
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enorbet,

Thank you for your insight.

I understand why you feel I had a contradiction in my post. I do not have the answers for how to have a more "user friendly" OS without "loss of control," giving more authority over the OS creators, and 'dumbing down' Linux.

I have seen more improvement in some applications, and Linux / Ubuntu distros, than previous ones. So, I am committed to the Linux way of OpSys. I think Linux is doing just fine and will improve with time.

Again, I do thank you for your insight in the realm of Linux and the future. I did re-read your post two times as the other items that you mentioned are also noteworthy and I appreciate you taking the time to add the information concerning Redhat and your insight concerning the future the trend of OpSys.

Thanks.

greencedar
 
Old 04-11-2019, 01:28 AM   #7
ondoho
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i think 5-year-olds have more important things (than sitting in front of a computer) to do & learn.
like basic motor & social skills.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 04:40 AM   #8
Samsonite2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
i think 5-year-olds have more important things (than sitting in front of a computer) to do & learn.
like basic motor & social skills.
True, but my son spends about 11-12 hours per day doing other things than sitting in front of a computer - he only spends about 30 mins in front of a computer, if at all. I think he will be all the better for being able to use one.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 05:09 AM   #9
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
I am writing this post because I feel some significant things have been happening in the Linux world.

There is always some pessimism about how Linux struggles to break into certain markets, but the ingredients are really in place right now. It may be a long-game though...
I don't know which rock you live under, but about the only market Linux isn't either the dominate system in, or big in, would be the desktop market.

Quote:
...
My eldest son is only 5, but he uses a Linux laptop and has never seen Windows, he is getting proficient in computing and finds Xubuntu entirely intuitive - he even shut the laptop down himself without me ever showing him how. It may be a decade later that we see this young generation making their computer choices, but it seems as though Linux may really start to make some headway in the long-term.

What do you guys think? I love the fact that whenever I do a presentation online from my Linux machine, people always want to know what cool PC I have and why it all works so nicely
The reality is that Linux isn't likely to be as big as Window$ in the desktop market. But who cares, it has most of the others.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 05:26 AM   #10
Samsonite2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I don't know which rock you live under, but about the only market Linux isn't either the dominate system in, or big in, would be the desktop market.
Well there are different segments of the desktop market, it is not that simple - there are small businesses, big businesses, home users, gamers, music producers, graphic artists, software/Web developers, publishers, video producers, 3D modellers, etc.

Some of these are big markets in themselves - you cannot just go for the desktop market as a whole as it is too vast. Take Apple - they do not dominate the desktop market, but have cornered a few areas mentioned above.

Of course a lot of casual users that would have used desktops in the past, now use tablets instead.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 05:43 AM   #11
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
Well there are different segments of the desktop market, it is not that simple - there are small businesses, big businesses, home users, gamers, music producers, graphic artists, software/Web developers, publishers, video producers, 3D modellers, etc.
And it's still known as a market called the "desktop market", where Window$ is the king for most of those "segments", and Linux isn't dominant in ANY of those "segments" ...

Quote:
Some of these are big markets in themselves - you cannot just go for the desktop market as a whole as it is too vast. Take Apple - they do not dominate the desktop market, but have cornered a few areas mentioned above.
Actually, and generally speaking, you can - people do it all the time. What your doing is called "nit-picking". Apple isn't Linux, it's I believe, more BSD UNIX - which isn't Linux.

Quote:
Of course a lot of casual users that would have used desktops in the past, now use tablets instead.
A tablet is not a desktop or laptop computer, so not the same thing...
 
Old 04-11-2019, 05:51 AM   #12
Samsonite2010
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Seriously what are you on? You appear to be arguing about something and you make zero sense.

I think Linux will start taking some segments of the desktop market over time - maybe 10 years or so.

I did not at any point say Apple is Linux, it is another OS - an example of a desktop OS - understand? Not sure what you are arguing about. Yes you can go for the desktop market as a whole if you really want to, but you cannot achieve it because of the diverse segments - you cannot take all segments at once. It would always be gradual if at all.

A tablet is not a desktop or laptop - I never said it was, I pointed out that casual desktop users have moved away from the desktop.


Please stop trying to make an argument out of everything - I want thoughts, not arguments. Please step away from the thread if you cannot do this, cheers.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 06:23 AM   #13
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
Seriously what are you on?
Life. Alright, actually, air, but now we are getting off-topic...


Quote:
You appear to be arguing about something and you make zero sense.
You asked for people's thoughts, and I gave you mine. I wasn't "arguing" about anything, unless you would like to call a discussion an "argument". Your "argument" doesn't make sense, and this is the point I was trying to make, but you didn't understand what I was saying...

Quote:
I think Linux will start taking some segments of the desktop market over time - maybe 10 years or so.

I did not at any point say Apple is Linux, it is another OS - an example of a desktop OS - understand? Not sure what you are arguing about. Yes you can go for the desktop market as a whole if you really want to, but you cannot achieve it because of the diverse segments - you cannot take all segments at once. It would always be gradual if at all.

A tablet is not a desktop or laptop - I never said it was, I pointed out that casual desktop users have moved away from the desktop.
I never said you did say it, but it seemed to be implied, which is why I made that point. Understand?

So, I will try one more time; Linux dominates almost every market bar the desktop market NOW (as we speak), but it does not have the same foothold in the desktop market (or any "segment" of), that it does in other markets. As discussed in the Windows v Linux mega thread at the very top of this very forum, most people do not give a rats ass about the OS (not saying Linux by itself is an OS), most people do not care how it works either. The sheer number of Linux distributions makes it very difficult for Linux to break into the desktop market, combined with the foothold Window$ already has, and likely will continue to have. The "year of the Linux desktop" has never even been close to becoming reality, therefore, the reality (if your interested in that) is that, it's very unlikely Linux will ever be able to be as big as Window$ in the desktop market (and any "segments" of). But hay, kid yourself all you like, it's nice to dream...

Quote:
Please stop trying to make an argument out of everything - I want thoughts, not arguments. Please step away from the thread if you cannot do this, cheers.
Which is once again what I gave you - thoughts that is. I have every right to post to whatever thread I like here. If you only want to hear "thoughts" that match yours, then it's a little pointless to start a thread to begin with.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 06:41 AM   #14
Samsonite2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Life. Alright, actually, air, but now we are getting off-topic...

You asked for people's thoughts, and I gave you mine. I wasn't "arguing" about anything, unless you would like to call a discussion an "argument". Your "argument" doesn't make sense, and this is the point I was trying to make, but you didn't understand what I was saying...

I never said you did say it, but it seemed to be implied, which is why I made that point. Understand?

So, I will try one more time; Linux dominates almost every market bar the desktop market NOW (as we speak), but it does not have the same foothold in the desktop market (or any "segment" of), that it does in other markets. As discussed in the Windows v Linux mega thread at the very top of this very forum, most people do not give a rats ass about the OS (not saying Linux by itself is an OS), most people do not care how it works either. The sheer number of Linux distributions makes it very difficult for Linux to break into the desktop market, combined with the foothold Window$ already has, and likely will continue to have. The "year of the Linux desktop" has never even been close to becoming reality, therefore, the reality (if your interested in that) is that, it's very unlikely Linux will ever be able to be as big as Window$ in the desktop market (and any "segments" of). But hay, kid yourself all you like, it's nice to dream...
The title of the thread is "How is Linux doing these days" and yes you did post some thoughts hidden within the insults, and I do appreciate that portion of your responses.

Your very first post on this thread started "I don't know which rock you live under", which was real friendly.

Yes you can post what you want and you can be a fool if you want. Great not to agree with me and I implore it, but stating that Mac is not Linux and tablets are not desktops (which I was actually implying myself) only serves to make a random argument over some simple facts that we are both stating (facts are facts rather than opinion after all).

Just try to find it in yourself to be a bit more friendly if you can and maybe not start a discussion by throwing a direct insult. For my part, I do sincerely apologize for getting grumpy
 
Old 04-11-2019, 07:00 AM   #15
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsonite2010 View Post
I think Linux will start taking some segments of the desktop market over time - maybe 10 years or so.
I think some people said the same thing about 10 or 15 years ago...
 
  


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