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Old 10-12-2019, 06:25 AM   #16
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbyon View Post
launch.
It's more complex than that, it's not just software, it's a minefield of national and international regulation, cooperation with banks and many other things. Without the banks, VISA could not work for example. It's not a direct system, it's indirect. A layer on top of the banking system and all the stuff in the banking system.

Paypal for example, probably operates like a bank, with it's main interface online. It handles and redistributes actual money.

Last edited by zeebra; 10-12-2019 at 06:27 AM.
 
Old 10-28-2019, 10:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
It's more complex than that, it's not just software, it's a minefield of national and international regulation, cooperation with banks and many other things. Without the banks, VISA could not work for example. It's not a direct system, it's indirect. A layer on top of the banking system and all the stuff in the banking system.

Paypal for example, probably operates like a bank, with it's main interface online. It handles and redistributes actual money.
I'm looking for ways to create your own credit card company like Visa due frauds.
 
Old 10-28-2019, 08:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bkbyon View Post
I'm looking for ways to create your own credit card company like Visa due frauds.
This is the wrong place to ask that. You need to find a banking forum or something like that.
 
Old 10-28-2019, 11:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
This is the wrong place to ask that. You need to find a banking forum or something like that.
ya it is. there isn't any.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 05:12 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by bkbyon View Post
ya it is. there isn't any.
It's just not the physical part of making the card, or the software and hardware to back it up, more importantly, how does it interface with the money system? And even more so, does it follow complex regulations?

Visa is not a bank. It's a cooperative between the banks, like swift in a way. Paypal did something different, they made that interface with the money system, so in essence it became a bank, just a different type of bank.

Last edited by zeebra; 10-29-2019 at 05:14 AM.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 05:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Actually there is a question in here struggling to get out. I understand that the processor built into modern bank cards receives from the PIN machine the PIN you typed in, encrypts it and compares it with its stored encrypted PIN. Then it sends a TRUE/FALSE signal to the machine. Likewise if you change your PIN, the processor can receive the new PIN, encrypt it and store it.

So how does it do that? Is it running a single program or is there some kind of mini-OS on it?
Based on my experience with wagering systems, all info is sent back to a central processor. The machine itself will not have the capacity to cater for all cards. The central processor should also be able to verify other aspects of the card (is it reported as stolen?).

The cynic in me also suggests this is an optimal time for the bank/provider to mine your information and dispatch this to all its paying partners
 
Old 10-29-2019, 05:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Actually there is a question in here struggling to get out. I understand that the processor built into modern bank cards receives from the PIN machine the PIN you typed in, encrypts it and compares it with its stored encrypted PIN. Then it sends a TRUE/FALSE signal to the machine. Likewise if you change your PIN, the processor can receive the new PIN, encrypt it and store it.

So how does it do that? Is it running a single program or is there some kind of mini-OS on it?
I’m pretty sure that the PIN is no longer stored on the card.
I can change my PIN online and have it work at the ATM or at a POS right away.

What you describe is (probably) happening, but the “stored encrypted PIN” is on the banks/ VISAs server, not on the card.

I agree that back in the day if you wanted to change the PIN you had to go to the bank so it could be stored on the card, but that’s apparently not the case today.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 06:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scasey View Post
I’m pretty sure that the PIN is no longer stored on the card.
I can change my PIN online and have it work at the ATM or at a POS right away.
From what I've heard, the US does not use the on-card encrypted PIN technology that we use in the UK. Instead, the PIN is stored in the bank. That probably reflects the fact that in many US states, local telephone calls are free, so it's easy and costless for the card to "phone home". In the UK, local calls have never been free.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 07:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
From what I've heard, the US does not use the on-card encrypted PIN technology that we use in the UK. Instead, the PIN is stored in the bank. That probably reflects the fact that in many US states, local telephone calls are free, so it's easy and costless for the card to "phone home". In the UK, local calls have never been free.
Did not realize there was that difference in the card technology. I did used to have to go into the bank to change a PIN. I assumed that was a universal thing. Silly me I suspect (assume) that the phone home cost of POS readers is included in the service charges of the merchant account.

Yes, local phone calls are free for residential customers. Used to be a charge for business customers back in the day...not sure what the current status is; I’ve not been involved in telecommunications since 2003. Back then, business customers still had a per-call charge for outbound local calls. (I used to support the billing systems for a small ILEC)

Today, one can even purchase plans that include free long distance calls on land lines, presumably because of what wireless telcos have done by removing roaming charges and providing “unlimited talk & text”. Many here don’t even have land lines anymore.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 08:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbyon View Post
ya it is. there isn't any.
Great bkbyon,

But you just seem to be continually asking, asking, asking, and also emitting one word replies, which haven't been helpful.

I feel this thread has never been on track.

Yes you've been advised to seek other forums. You also should look online.

I for one don't know nearly anywhere close to the answers, but I can say from minor associative experience that it likely is Intellectual Property, along with some industry conventions. And at least I'd be looking in far greater earnest for more information, than you appear to be doing.

For industry conventions, one should learn about what is used for the financial companies and networks. Much like there's a medical patient records convention which health care companies try to use to protect data, same thing for financial. There are probably some universal conventions used across all banks, and those would be standards which you could seek out, and look up. Next there are likely some learned papers about the topic of protecting financial identity for card, and technical papers discussing methods to address this. I received a phone interview with a company that was working on products for enabling more security for credit cards. Some things they discussed, some things they likely did not cover at all, because it is protected IP and they'd only discuss it once they decided if they wished to bring a candidate into their company.

If your intention is to envision and design something which enriches the world, or gains you a benefit by having designed it, then get involved in academic progress related to this concentration, it's a lot of work and time, but worthwhile for the persons who persist and also have excellent ideas which they can develop.

If your intention is to create your own company with new technology and you wish to combine things that are out there, and work with those who are developing new technologies, then seek out companies like the one I described (name long since forgotten but I'm sure you can find plenty of them out there), and partner with them, propose your ideas, and develop these concepts.

My point here is that these are not just fast, single sentence answers, you're discussing a major undertaking.

And believe me, sorry to say, but you're under-whelming me with your lack of verbosity on this topic.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 04:52 PM   #26
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Imagine a whole world owned by 5 people" Visa, Mastercard, AE, Discover, etc.. And operated by one single person. Scary indeed. That's communism.

Imagine tax system owned by single person, and he gets to do whatever he wants with it literally.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 08:23 PM   #27
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbyon View Post
Imagine a whole world owned by 5 people" Visa, Mastercard, AE, Discover, etc.. And operated by one single person. Scary indeed. That's communism.

Imagine tax system owned by single person, and he gets to do whatever he wants with it literally.
Obviously this is your thread, however if you wish to make non-technical discussion, then this thread should be moved to the non-nix/general forum.

Not my forum, however I have reported this post to the moderators of this forum for review.

Suggest you either clarify your technical direction, or if this is speculation discussion about credit card companies, then indicate this has been your direction all along and the thread will likely be moved.

To be clear, I'm not interested in open discussion about the topic you're discussing here.

Last edited by rtmistler; 10-29-2019 at 08:25 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2019, 09:29 PM   #28
jefro
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I agree it is to the general point now.
 
Old 10-30-2019, 07:07 AM   #29
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No one has answered my question yet. How does the processor on the credit card do its job? On second thoughts, I don't think any kind of OS would be required, just a single program running on bare metal.
 
Old 10-30-2019, 07:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
No one has answered my question yet. How does the processor on the credit card do its job? On second thoughts, I don't think any kind of OS would be required, just a single program running on bare metal.
You may find this an interesting read: https://money.howstuffworks.com/pers...edit-cards.htm
 
  


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