Hi all...

Some things with Linux itself and the Linux community would have to change before this could realistically start happening.

Regards...

Pretty ambiguous/polysemous statement there. Don't you think?

Because I sure do not know what you mean by that statement.

TobiSGD highlighted the key in this statement:

The average computer user has never and will never install an OS. For most consumers, the computer is a Magickal Box that works in mysterious ways its wonders to perform.

Even First Son, who is a member of the 82nd Airborne USA and jumps out airplanes with military-grade laptops, once told me that he drew the line at messing with a computer's operating system. (I think I was installing Slackware on something at the time . . . .)

The public will not move to Linux until and unless manufacturers make it available.

You might want to read up on that. systemd was designed by Mr. Poettering under the name "babykit" around 2005 (where Linux hardly can be called popular for the desktop market) and it was not accepted by Redhat first. They went with Upstart instead, which was eventually abandoned by Red Hat due to Canonical's ridiculous licensing policy. How someone can honestly claim that a project with over 500 developers from many different distros was engineered for one distro to control the market is beyond my comprehension.
Having said that, let's not make this another systemd thread.
I bet that many longtime Linux users that are happy with KDE and the Plasma Desktop think different about that. I would really be interested what Alien Bob's opinion on that would be.

Anyways, @rokytnji: The Acer Iconia w3-810 (why did you make a search for AUS iconia?), or better it Atom 2000 series CPU, is a prime example when it comes to hardware support I have spoken about. Intel decided that it is OK to leave Linux users out of the question with this CPU when they opted for the infamous PowerVR GPU in that CPU. There are no drivers with sufficient functionality for those GPUs and neither Imagination Technologies nor Intel is willing to deliver them. This is where people, and especially customers that bought this stuff without knowing about that, should openly and loud tell Intel what they think about that behavior. Though in the case of Intel that might not be needed, since they decided to use their HD graphics series for the Atom 3000 series.

Look at the propaganda and the derision with which systemd proponets and devs vew the rest of the linux community.
The attitude is present in your statement above. Whatever backstory LP is pushing, what redhat intends with it seems non obvious only to the naive.
If systemd could succeed purely on technical merit there wouldnt be the resistance to it that there is and its a great illustration of what happens when large companies smell money. Im afraid linux has become the victim of its own popularity.

Wow, in the recent months I was delusional, a paid Red Hat shill and what not. Now I am simply naive.
You may try to contact all the distros that have already switched to systemd (are all those devs also naive?) and show to them how systemd can not succeed on technical merits, I am sure your evaluation is well done and well documented, maybe you should make a blog post here at LQ, so that all the naive people here that like systemd can benefit from your insights. I am sure someone with those insights has something to show to us.

Anyways, as I said, let's not derail this thread into another systemd thread. If you are interested in discussing this topic based on your insights about systemd feel free to contact me via PM or email.

I agree that having it distributed pre-installed as the primary OS on a large scale would be a main way that Linux would become an everyday OS for users who just want a computer and aren't fully invested in caring what the OS is.

As bad as it sounds, likely it would have to be something like Dell, but also Dell then creating it's own Linux where we'd all argue about it similarly as people argue about Canonical. There would be lots of hate/venom directed at the purveyor because ... they'd be making money at it = the whole point.

Another thought was the one about schools in Brazil all using Linux. I get that. Linux is free, Windows is not, Apple is not. Might be a slow downfall for those companies. I'm sure they give systems away in some manner, or maybe Dell/Gateway gives them away to schools, and thus Windows is included. They better. Because if schools all over the world have to rely on grants, funding, etc and then they end up picking a free OS because it is free. That will definitely make it so that acceptance will be way higher for Linux in the future.

Third try at a response. might as well do this in a text file 1st.
Sorry Bro. I double checked my links and do not see that. = (AUS)
The Acer came up on a support install question I was replying to.

OK. Rising up about software. Being a scooter tramp. I have to grin at that.
Knowing how folks just shrug their shoulders and roll with Windows 8.1.
Which twitter,skype and facebook handle just fine.
Grinning on the mexican border. Thanks for making me smile.

I run Linux because of the way I am. But I am a special case.
I live on the outskirts of society all my life.
Which makes civilized folks uncomfy.
.
And we all know.
It is about being comfy in the end.
Because that is all there is to it.

I am Not trying to be confrontational. Just realistic.
Even with my response to ardvark71.
Because I am curious about his idea of cambio=change and the Linux community that is keeping the masses away?

To be honest though. I dislike the masses. I dislike main stream.
It made the price of motorcycle parts and motorcycles go up.
So I have my reasons.

Edit: Necessity is the mother of invention. Uruguay and other Latin American countries are a pragmatic lot anyways.
Such is my experience partying and hanging out with Hispanics and Indians.

Ideally, when you buy a computer you should be asked if you want Windows, Linux, or no OS installed. Trouble is, this is not an ideal world.

Whoops, typo, I meant to write ASUS, your search was for an ASUS Iconia.
You surely are not the typical customer, I am aware of that. My point is: When companies show Linux unfriendly behavior let them know that they won't get away with it. A simple "I won't buy your products anymore, I will by from [insert Linux friendly company that produces that type of hardware] instead." will not bring much when only one customer does it, but when a whole community does it this is a game changer.
For example, when I see a game on Steam that is interesting for me but has no Linux version I go to the forums and ask for one. You will see people chiming in asking why the game developers should care about Linux when it is only 1-2 that are using it, why should they port for such a small market. The answer that these 1-2 of gamers registered on Steam alone are 650,000 to 1,300,000 potential customers usually changes the tone of the discussion, because it is hard to argue with actual numbers and potential revenue makes any developer more willing to consider a port.
The same way it can work with hardware, if you tell those hardware manufacturers that they are closing themselves out of a market of millions of people (there are for sure a much higher number of Linux users than Linux gamers) it might be a point that leads them to think again about their stance regarding Linux.

You know, I keep thinking that Steamboxes could be positioned as high-end alternatives not to the PS4 and XBox One, but to the Apple TV and Fire TV.

Dell already in the mix.

USA price.
Shivers from sticker shock.
The above is for the XPS 13.

Whoo-Hoo!!!

Yeah, expensive.

You arent going to bait me any further into this, and i agree on not derailing the thread. Instead ill just let a search engine speak to the subject.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=forum+problem+systemd&t=ffsb

But thinking about it, something like systemd etc. was bound to happen, a move to standardize linux and make it more controllable and monolithic in the name of profit and the lowest common denominator. Doomed by its popularity. I suppose it could have been worse and im sure more of the same is yet to come. I suppose it will end with those that feel like i do moving to a bsd and im fine with that. Change happens i guess

Hi...

I've been waiting until I felt better to respond. Perhaps I've should have waited until I could have posted the entirety of my thoughts. I'm a self-employed technician, so I work with many different kinds of people who use Windows, however, I do tend to see one general theme and that is that they are not computer gurus. The vast majority are just average users. Sometimes they know just enough to turn the system on and do basic things and are not able to easily adjust, if at all, to new ways of doing things or different concepts. My intention is not to offend folks but to give my opinion on what needs to change. This is not a comprehensive list but I think it outlines some of the things I find important. To summarize...

1. Linux itself: Leaving aside the sheer number of distributions and choices, which many people are not going to want or be able to deal with, the OS itself is still too buggy and difficult to work with when things go wrong. Although great strides have been made towards developing GUI's for many different programs and utilities, the CLI is still required for way too much, particularly with troubleshooting and software installation. Windows works for a great number of people because almost all of what you need to do can be done by "pointing and clicking." Even as a technician, when I have to repair someone's system, it's rare that I have to use the command line. With Linux, it's a given. Folks are not going to want to have to spend a lot of time, if they are able, to try and learn the basics of an OS language, or code, (that will even differ slightly depending on the distribution,) to do something they used to be able to do just by pointing and clicking. The reason why Windows works for a lot of people is that it tries to take complex computing tasks and simplify them as much as possible for the average computer user to work with and understand. Linux can do the same but it has a ways to go.

2. Software: I think the vast majority of folks like the ability of when they see a program they like on a web page, the can just download and install it with a few easy clicks. Granted, a lot of times that can end up with a malware infestation but still, people like the concept. With Linux, for the most part, that option is unavailable. More experienced users will know how to look around to see if there is a similar program for Linux and if there is one available, there's a reasonable, if not good, chance they will have to unpack the tar.gz file, attempt to compile it and if they are very fortunate, it will do so without any errors and come up and work without any glitches and problems. There simply needs to be more professionally created programs for Linux (that you can find anywhere on the web) that are easily installed in Linux without the bugs and the problems that I've typically seen.

3. Support and the Linux community: The typical model of support for a free (as in price) distribution of Linux is to go to that distribution's official support forum or even one like this one. The paid distributions will usually offer phone support in addition or sometimes, in the case of Canonical, phone support will be offered via a separate support plan. As many of you know, most folks in the Windows world get support through the system OEM, such as Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc., if Linux were to be preinstalled on these systems, I don't really see that model changing any. However, as it stands now, in order for Linux to advance on the desktop, I think the community is going to have to shift to a phone support system as is normally available for Windows users. Many users are not going to accept trying to get their problems fixed by spending possibly days typing in a forum, only to end up not getting any help at all or their issue resolved. There is another problem I've seen on at least two Linux forums, although I'm sure it takes place to some degree on most, if not all of them: People making snide, insulting remarks to those who ask questions the others consider dumb, not thought out, or when something is not understood by the OP. This is flat out unacceptable and there should be no room for this kind of behavior on ANY board but sadly, it is often tolerated by moderators and owners alike. Trust me, this will turn off many Windows users to Linux quicker than anything. The people who offer support need to act in a courteous, professional manner at all times and not belittle those who are seeking help, regardless of how they go about it. The Golden Rule applies here as well.

As far as the commnity goes, I do see a level of elitism and arrogance that I feel needs to be dealt with. No one is better than anyone else, regardless of skill level or attributes. We are all created equally by our Creator even though we all different in many ways. I'm speaking here of our value and worth as His creation, not sin or sinful things. Two very different things here.

I'm needing a break so that's it for now...

Regards...